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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old January 8 2013, 06:38 PM   #1036
EnsignRicky
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Seriously. We got it after more or less thirtieth identical post

Personally I'm VERY enthusiastic about this set. It's more that I have ever even bothered to hope for; And since I have no intention of sitting in my house meticulously re-creating all 79 episodes in exacting detail, it's way more than I could have expected.

If there's anything unsatisfactory to my ears, I haven't found it yet; And if I did, I certainly wouldn't go obsessively bitching ceaselessly to the masses about it.
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Old January 8 2013, 06:43 PM   #1037
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Dalen Quaice wrote: View Post
IMHO, some tracks are original sessions while others have been editorially changed somewhat crudely to match the flow in the episodes.
Now you're just being rude.

The set seems inconsistent in that regard; sometimes "clean" and sometimes "edited" -- the original tapes were, according to the producers ~ 150 reel to reel with ~ 30 minutes each - that means ~ 75 hours of material edited down to what we have on the collection. "IF" you can condense the material to that size and be complete, then I see no problem at all. Certainly there are going to be duplicates of music; however, if you CHANGE the way the music is recorded OR edited, it becomes a unique work that neither matches the episodes nor the exact studio recordings... which I think is what we have here. It is fine for casual listening, but not an enthusiast item. That is my opinion, of course.
Your opinion is uninformed. As has been explained, what you are describing is a common and necessary presentation when it comes to soundtrack albums.
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Old January 8 2013, 07:02 PM   #1038
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Jim -I used multiple versions. The oldest was a 16mm film chain recording from the early 80's of TV braodcast. It has been the same in every version I have tried, but I don't think I have the laserdisc. I have some of them, but I don't think all. Anyway, I don't have the time to go over it again. I'll let you test it more and decide for yourself. Any conclusions are my opinion and just my opinion as are all the posts I make here.

If someone had the cue sheet, then we could see what actually aired originally?
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Old January 8 2013, 07:05 PM   #1039
doubleohfive
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Or--now hear me out--we could listen to the music and enjoy it.
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Old January 8 2013, 07:20 PM   #1040
The Warlord
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

JimZipCode wrote: View Post
The first DVDs are produced, and the team working on those re-creates the soundtracks. In some cases they use the GNP Crescendo as the source for the music, even though that source is inaccurate. In our scenario, Lights of Zetar is one of those cases....
Yes we can sync up the DVD or BluRay to the GNP, but that's just an historical artifact of how the DVD & BluRay releases were put together. It doesn't have anything to do with the completeness of the soundtrack box set. We're not using the right reference to identify cues.
This may be true, but it seems to me that this is somewhat over complicating the matter. A theory: the original Force Field cue was made as one standalone cue which had a proper 'end'. This was joined together with the Silvery Orbs cue during the editing process for WNMHGB. However, series 3 rolls around and the editors decide to use WNMHGB music in Zetar; they use the *original* unedited tapes, resulting in a decision to end the teaser with the original Force Field end in tact.
2012 rolls around and La La Land decide to recreate how the cues were edited in their originally intended episodes. Result: the end of Force Field is merged into Silvery Orbs as per the original episode it was intended for.
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Old January 8 2013, 07:25 PM   #1041
The Warlord
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Regarding the "missing" Spock's Brain cue just after "there is no mind" - it really looks like it was editorially created. It reuses the sting from "Poor Spock" and then segues into "Spock Walks." There's an overlay in there apparently, but there isn't a missing cue. It may have been reused in later episodes because they felt it sounded good and kept the edit for later use. Stranger things have happened.
Hmmm, I'm not sure. The "missing" cue seems to naturally fade, and sounds slightly different than the Spocks Walks cue, especially noticeable in, for example, the first few seconds of the scene in which Rayna plays pool in Requiem for Methuselah.
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Old January 8 2013, 07:26 PM   #1042
JimZipCode
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Dalen Quaice wrote: View Post
The oldest was a 16mm film chain recording from the early 80's of TV broadcast. It has been the same in every version I have tried, but I don't think I have the laserdisc. ... I'll let you test it more and decide for yourself. Any conclusions are my opinion and just my opinion as are all the posts I make here.
I can't test it. I don't have any laserdiscs; and if I did, Lights of Zetar/Requiem for Methuselah would be among the last I would buy. :-)

I'm not sure what a "16mm film chain recording" is, but it sounds pretty professional, and I guess early enough to be before the 5.1 remastering for DVD. That would shoot some holes in my beautiful theory, alas.



Dalen Quaice wrote: View Post
If someone had the cue sheet, then we could see what actually aired originally?
Certainly. At least theoretically. I'll ask on the FSM forum. Jeff Bond and Neil both post in that thread (the "actual music" thread).

Can someone (Dalen/SSOS/Warlord) tell me again: when in the Lights of Zetar trailer does the "Force Field" cue appear? Either approximate time or what is happening onscreen, or both.
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Old January 8 2013, 07:36 PM   #1043
JimZipCode
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

The Warlord wrote: View Post
This may be true, but it seems to me that this is somewhat over complicating the matter. A theory:
I find your theory just as complicated as mine.

Mine has the advantage that we know that at leat some of what I described, happened. (Though not necessarily with Zetar.) And it accords with what the La-la Land guys said about the work they did.

My theory has the disadvantage that it seems to be wrong! At least given what Dalen said about the 16mm film chain recording of Zetar. It could stand more checking.

Your theory might well be correct; but I hope not. I would prefer that further investigation reveal that your & SSOS' and Dalen's complaints were mistaken, did not have real basis. I'm still hoping that every "missing" cue turns out to be either a composite created by the music editor, or a case of using a wrong reference (as per my theory above), or something similar.
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Old January 8 2013, 07:57 PM   #1044
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

The Warlord wrote: View Post
2012 rolls around and La La Land decide to recreate how the cues were edited in their originally intended episodes.
Seems valid to me. That would indicate that the editing of the set was done a) for listening, not for hacking apart, and b) especially in order to prevent people splicing together episode scores and then distributing them as "complete score" projects online, as was happening with some DVD rips before this set came out.
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Old January 8 2013, 09:12 PM   #1045
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

^Beatle - that is an outstanding theory!!

The Blu-Ray episode discs seemed to have the frame rate slightly adjusted so that when you ripped, they were slightly out of sync and had to be tweaked. The offset was different on each disc as I recall. I couldn't imagine why they would do that except to make it difficult to rip. I was merely doing it because I thought the disc navigation was annoying, especially the flashing icon when the effects sequences were changed.

Following Beatle's theory, they would be able to match particular edits to this collection when they found pirate copies or another CD issue from another country, etc. I notice there are already rips on mediafire and uploaded.to - if you google it, you might find them.

Last edited by Dalen Quaice; January 8 2013 at 09:25 PM.
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Old January 8 2013, 10:50 PM   #1046
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

JimZipCode wrote: View Post
I would prefer that further investigation reveal that your & SSOS' and Dalen's complaints were mistaken, did not have real basis.
To be accurate, I don't really have any complaints, per se. Even with the cross-fading, I'm thrilled with this box set and have really no measurable disappointment. I'm just trying to help find cues that may or may not be missing.
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Old January 8 2013, 10:53 PM   #1047
The Warlord
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
JimZipCode wrote: View Post
I would prefer that further investigation reveal that your & SSOS' and Dalen's complaints were mistaken, did not have real basis.
To be accurate, I don't really have any complaints, per se. Even with the cross-fading, I'm thrilled with this box set and have really no measurable disappointment. I'm just trying to help find cues that may or may not be missing.
Agreed! Whilst I've picked up on things myself, I think this is a fabulous set.
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Old January 8 2013, 10:54 PM   #1048
Cap'n Claus
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

BeatleJWOL wrote: View Post
The Warlord wrote: View Post
2012 rolls around and La La Land decide to recreate how the cues were edited in their originally intended episodes.
Seems valid to me. That would indicate that the editing of the set was done a) for listening, not for hacking apart, and b) especially in order to prevent people splicing together episode scores and then distributing them as "complete score" projects online, as was happening with some DVD rips before this set came out.
Eh, nothing is gonna stop this set from being shared and sent around, edited or not. Sites aready have people posting links to it all over the place. But, I would agree with point a) it was created to be a listening experience, where the music works as an album, not an archive to create your own tracking mixes. Since Star Trek's tracked and edited scores are all part of the fun of the series, it's probably going to attracted more of that than most other shows. But it had to be created for the audience at large.

If you want an example of a straightforward TV series music archive, check out the Network CDs of The Prisoner. Uttlerly unlistenable without major home editing.
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Old January 8 2013, 11:24 PM   #1049
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
If you want an example of a straightforward TV series music archive, check out the Network CDs of The Prisoner. Uttlerly unlistenable without major home editing.
Interesting. What makes them unlistenable?
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Old January 9 2013, 03:09 AM   #1050
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
If you want an example of a straightforward TV series music archive, check out the Network CDs of The Prisoner. Uttlerly unlistenable without major home editing.
I feel about this TOS set the way you felt about The Prisoner set (I don't have that set). I have the Dark Shadows set, which I quite love. It is complete and really has every cue for all 1225 episodes. I haven't noticed any problems with editing on that set. It came out a few years back, but it is still available from MPI.

I actually wonder if my discs are defective?

Can anybody else hear any glitches and abnormal volume level changes during some of the edits on this set? Well I find that mega-annoying to the point of having to go in and fix problems on the tracks. On a box set this expensive, I was expecting to be able to listen to the music off the discs without having to mess with it. It seems impossible for me, and this is a disappointment. I really don't have time to mess around with this, yet I've wanted a box set like this for such a long time.

I'm glad that everyone is happy with the set; and although you may think I'm just trying to pick it apart to find fault, I am not.
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