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Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old January 7 2013, 05:20 PM   #16
JarodRussell
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

Another Insurrection thread?
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Old January 7 2013, 08:35 PM   #17
lurok
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

Yup. But at least not talking about plot, which is a blessed change
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Old January 7 2013, 09:51 PM   #18
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

lurok wrote: View Post
Yup. But at least not talking about plot, which is a blessed change
I think Insurrection is the most 'picked on' movie on this forum. With good reason!
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Old January 8 2013, 05:32 PM   #19
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

spaceballone wrote: View Post
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I disagree that Frakes has anything to apologize for with this movie as far as direction. He did fine with his job, this movie's problem was the poorly thought-out story. Piller owed an apology for this movie, not Frakes.
He was the director. If he saw things that didn't work then he had to have the balls to demand changes to the script.

His job wasn't to be Berman's 'yes man'.
Frakes job was to shoot the script he was given and that's what he did. He was not involved in the story development or scripting at all. He did not have the power to overide Berman on anything major or request any major re-writes.
This is interesting given that months before release, summer 1998, I saw a poster for Insurrection at a local shopping mall in which the credits began "A Film by Jonathan Frakes." This phrase, of course, was missing from the actual film or posters/ads during release. Either the poster used the "A Film by" phrase accidentally (highly unlikely, given that such credits are the result of prior negotiation), or the credit was renegotiated after the poster was produced, analogous to the early TMP poster that gave Gene Roddenberry partial writing credit.

A mystery.
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Old January 8 2013, 07:07 PM   #20
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

I agree it was out of Frakes' hands, considering what he had to work with I think he did the best he could. At the time I was very disappointed he wasn't given the reins for Nemesis.

What I never understood about the inception of Insurrection is the idea of doing something lighter after making the big, action adventure story that was First Contact. Its beyond baffling.
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Old January 8 2013, 07:11 PM   #21
lurok
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

If you search around this site (and net) you'll probably find some of the answer. The original ideas for INS were far more interesting, but Stewart in particular wanted something lighter (unless I'm mis-remembering).
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Old January 8 2013, 07:33 PM   #22
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

lurok wrote: View Post
If you search around this site (and net) you'll probably find some of the answer. The original ideas for INS were far more interesting, but Stewart in particular wanted something lighter (unless I'm mis-remembering).
Berman and Piller actually conceived of it as a lighter film from the getgo, because they didn't believe they could (or should) "out-Borg the Borg" and Berman was particularly fond of the success of The Voyage Home, and believed its lighter tone was largely responsible for its success.
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Old January 8 2013, 07:56 PM   #23
Dale Sams
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
lurok wrote: View Post
If you search around this site (and net) you'll probably find some of the answer. The original ideas for INS were far more interesting, but Stewart in particular wanted something lighter (unless I'm mis-remembering).
Berman and Piller actually conceived of it as a lighter film from the getgo, because they didn't believe they could (or should) "out-Borg the Borg" and Berman was particularly fond of the success of The Voyage Home, and believed its lighter tone was largely responsible for its success.
That's all fine, I'd still ask for a *little* more gravity, a little more of a nod to the war than what they gave.

From Insurrection, am I to infer that the Enterprise-E is really the USS Bob Hope?
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Old January 8 2013, 08:09 PM   #24
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
lurok wrote: View Post
If you search around this site (and net) you'll probably find some of the answer. The original ideas for INS were far more interesting, but Stewart in particular wanted something lighter (unless I'm mis-remembering).
Berman and Piller actually conceived of it as a lighter film from the getgo, because they didn't believe they could (or should) "out-Borg the Borg" and Berman was particularly fond of the success of The Voyage Home, and believed its lighter tone was largely responsible for its success.
That's all fine, I'd still ask for a *little* more gravity, a little more of a nod to the war than what they gave.

From Insurrection, am I to infer that the Enterprise-E is really the USS Bob Hope?
Go find a copy of Piller's book "Fade In," which describes in gory detail how Insurrection was written. It originally was substantially darker, with more gravitas. Studio-ordered rewrites watered it down into what wound up on screen.
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Old January 8 2013, 08:11 PM   #25
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

The most awkward thing about it is that they didn't pursue the first draft because they ASSUMED Patrick Stewart might not like it. And then it turned it he did like the story, but they continued with a new draft.
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Old January 8 2013, 09:44 PM   #26
Dale Sams
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

I've only just now read the first part of "Fade In", but there are already several ideas that would made the film much better.
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Old January 8 2013, 10:10 PM   #27
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
I've only just now read the first part of "Fade In", but there are already several ideas that would made the film much better.
Its a great book.
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Old January 8 2013, 10:20 PM   #28
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

The original outline drew inspiration from Heart Of Darkness and sounded damn good.

I was drawn to Star Trek in the first place by First Contact, so had high hopes for it's sequel. Man, was I deflated leaving the theater that time round.
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Old January 8 2013, 10:37 PM   #29
Lance
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

The thing which surprised me is that it somehow felt smaller than First Contact. And more cloistered too, in a funny sort of way. FC actually felt bigger and bolder and more "in the open", which is somewhat ironic because INS featured literally more external scenes away from the Enterprise than FC and costed way more money to shoot. I think FC was just better at suggesting its world, hinting in a way which makes it seem so broad while the size is actually scaled right back. On the other hand, INS kind of puts it all up there on the screen and then doesn't do anything interesting with any of it.
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Old January 8 2013, 10:55 PM   #30
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Re: My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

Lance wrote: View Post
The thing which surprised me is that it somehow felt smaller than First Contact. And more cloistered too, in a funny sort of way. FC actually felt bigger and bolder and more "in the open", which is somewhat ironic because INS featured literally more external scenes away from the Enterprise than FC and costed way more money to shoot. I think FC was just better at suggesting its world, hinting in a way which makes it seem so broad while the size is actually scaled right back. On the other hand, INS kind of puts it all up there on the screen and then doesn't do anything interesting with any of it.
I always thought Insurrection felt "small" because it was about a few hundred people on an insignificant planet in the middle of a region no one cared about. In First Contact, the fate of the entire Federation was at stake--if they failed, everyone would be Borg. The stakes were higher and the scale was larger.
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