Early Federation 2161+

Antni · January 7 2013, 08:48 PM

Second post here and I'm fascinated With the early federation from its birth in 2161. Obviously there's not much we know about the times between the end of Enterprise and the start of The Original Series in terms of on screen stuff.

One thing I have always found enjoyment in trek is the uniforms and often wondered that as a fresh new start in 2161 did the federation design a new uniform different from the ones we saw in 'These are the voyages' and what do you think they would have looked like. Did they get rid of the crest on the arms straight away too and opted for the delta like logo on the chest (different for different ships) or did they carry on with the crest for a while?

I'm not well versed in trek novels or anything just what I have watched on screen. Has there ever been mention or a description of what the uniforms looked like between 2161-2233 (since after trek 09 we see the Kelvin uniforms)

Also something else about the early federation too is starfleet and it's ships. Would of the federation just have used its current earth ships and built a whole set of new ones from scratch? Or would part of the deal that came with the signing the federation is that each member at the beginning contributes a part of its fleet to federation and starfleets command so it can guard it's new borders right away until it builds it's new 'official' federation starfleet vessels? I hope that question makes sense haha.

LobsterAfternoon · January 8 2013, 04:40 AM

Hi there, I know it's not canon, but the recently released "Federation:The First 150 Years" covered this time-period and is excellent. It's an in-universe history book and a great read.

Antni wrote:

Second post here and I'm fascinated With the early federation from its birth in 2161. Obviously there's not much we know about the times between the end of Enterprise and the start of The Original Series in terms of on screen stuff.

One thing I have always found enjoyment in trek is the uniforms and often wondered that as a fresh new start in 2161 did the federation design a new uniform different from the ones we saw in 'These are the voyages' and what do you think they would have looked like. Did they get rid of the crest on the arms straight away too and opted for the delta like logo on the chest (different for different ships) or did they carry on with the crest for a while?

I'm not well versed in trek novels or anything just what I have watched on screen. Has there ever been mention or a description of what the uniforms looked like between 2161-2233 (since after trek 09 we see the Kelvin uniforms)

Also something else about the early federation too is starfleet and it's ships. Would of the federation just have used its current earth ships and built a whole set of new ones from scratch? Or would part of the deal that came with the signing the federation is that each member at the beginning contributes a part of its fleet to federation and starfleets command so it can guard it's new borders right away until it builds it's new 'official' federation starfleet vessels? I hope that question makes sense haha.

Antni · January 8 2013, 05:31 AM

Oh has it? Nice one thanks will have to check it out.

C.E. Evans · January 8 2013, 06:29 AM

As far as onscreen material, there really isn't much to go on as far as the early years of the Federation. The Daedalus-class starship was in service during this time, but that's about it (and even then, there's no real official Daedalus-class design, only a conjectural one by off-screen sources).

Personally, though, I'm inclined to think that when the Federation initially adopted Starfleet, the uniforms didn't change that much from those we saw in the final episode of ENT. While NX-01 Enterprise was decommissioned just before the Federation was founded, there's really nothing that suggests the NX-class as a whole was. It's possible in those very early days that Starfleet was comprised of different ships of Earth, Vulcan, Andorian, and Tellarite designs, but that they all sported the same Starfleet hull colors and markings until all-new designs were eventually built.

Timo · January 8 2013, 07:11 AM

If the Federation was built on an alliance solidified by war (against the Romulans), one might see two completely opposite reactions:

- The memory of the war would be carried on. All combatants would fiercely defend the symbols of the recent victory (defeat?), that is, retain the uniforms, flags, titles and other terminology. Copious wartime production of starships would mean there would be no need to build anything new for the next half a century, so no "Federal" designs would emerge for starships, sidearms or communicators.

- Wartime momentum would be retained. The industries that had kept the war effort going would not be idled, and ships built on the cheap and already falling apart on the seams would be immediately scrapped and a thousand new ones built in their stead. Uniform and sidearm makers would be kept employed by new designs, too. It would also be important politically to show that the war was behind the Federation, so all the old symbology would be hidden or rapidly nostalgized, and national elements would be made to serve the new unity.

Timo Saloniemi

King Daniel · January 8 2013, 03:56 PM

Antni wrote:

Second post here and I'm fascinated With the early federation from its birth in 2161. Obviously there's not much we know about the times between the end of Enterprise and the start of The Original Series in terms of on screen stuff.

One thing I have always found enjoyment in trek is the uniforms and often wondered that as a fresh new start in 2161 did the federation design a new uniform different from the ones we saw in 'These are the voyages' and what do you think they would have looked like. Did they get rid of the crest on the arms straight away too and opted for the delta like logo on the chest (different for different ships) or did they carry on with the crest for a while?

I'm not well versed in trek novels or anything just what I have watched on screen. Has there ever been mention or a description of what the uniforms looked like between 2161-2233 (since after trek 09 we see the Kelvin uniforms)

Also something else about the early federation too is starfleet and it's ships. Would of the federation just have used its current earth ships and built a whole set of new ones from scratch? Or would part of the deal that came with the signing the federation is that each member at the beginning contributes a part of its fleet to federation and starfleets command so it can guard it's new borders right away until it builds it's new 'official' federation starfleet vessels? I hope that question makes sense haha.

I believe you're going to enjoy the forthcoming novel Rise of the Federation. Read more here: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=192856
The author even designed new uniforms!

Count Zero · January 8 2013, 04:21 PM

Ooh, that sounds interesting. Thanks for the heads-up.

January 7 2013, 08:48 PM	#1
Antni Lieutenant Junior Grade Location: Manchester, UK	Early Federation 2161+ Second post here and I'm fascinated With the early federation from its birth in 2161. Obviously there's not much we know about the times between the end of Enterprise and the start of The Original Series in terms of on screen stuff. One thing I have always found enjoyment in trek is the uniforms and often wondered that as a fresh new start in 2161 did the federation design a new uniform different from the ones we saw in 'These are the voyages' and what do you think they would have looked like. Did they get rid of the crest on the arms straight away too and opted for the delta like logo on the chest (different for different ships) or did they carry on with the crest for a while? I'm not well versed in trek novels or anything just what I have watched on screen. Has there ever been mention or a description of what the uniforms looked like between 2161-2233 (since after trek 09 we see the Kelvin uniforms) Also something else about the early federation too is starfleet and it's ships. Would of the federation just have used its current earth ships and built a whole set of new ones from scratch? Or would part of the deal that came with the signing the federation is that each member at the beginning contributes a part of its fleet to federation and starfleets command so it can guard it's new borders right away until it builds it's new 'official' federation starfleet vessels? I hope that question makes sense haha.

January 8 2013, 05:31 AM	#3
Antni Lieutenant Junior Grade Location: Manchester, UK	Re: Early Federation 2161+ Oh has it? Nice one thanks will have to check it out. __________________ "Speak for yourself sir, I plan to live forever."

January 8 2013, 06:29 AM	#4
C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)	Re: Early Federation 2161+ As far as onscreen material, there really isn't much to go on as far as the early years of the Federation. The Daedalus-class starship was in service during this time, but that's about it (and even then, there's no real official Daedalus-class design, only a conjectural one by off-screen sources). Personally, though, I'm inclined to think that when the Federation initially adopted Starfleet, the uniforms didn't change that much from those we saw in the final episode of ENT. While NX-01 Enterprise was decommissioned just before the Federation was founded, there's really nothing that suggests the NX-class as a whole was. It's possible in those very early days that Starfleet was comprised of different ships of Earth, Vulcan, Andorian, and Tellarite designs, but that they all sported the same Starfleet hull colors and markings until all-new designs were eventually built. __________________ "Shout, shout, let it all out..."

January 8 2013, 07:11 AM	#5
Timo Admiral	Re: Early Federation 2161+ If the Federation was built on an alliance solidified by war (against the Romulans), one might see two completely opposite reactions: - The memory of the war would be carried on. All combatants would fiercely defend the symbols of the recent victory (defeat?), that is, retain the uniforms, flags, titles and other terminology. Copious wartime production of starships would mean there would be no need to build anything new for the next half a century, so no "Federal" designs would emerge for starships, sidearms or communicators. - Wartime momentum would be retained. The industries that had kept the war effort going would not be idled, and ships built on the cheap and already falling apart on the seams would be immediately scrapped and a thousand new ones built in their stead. Uniform and sidearm makers would be kept employed by new designs, too. It would also be important politically to show that the war was behind the Federation, so all the old symbology would be hidden or rapidly nostalgized, and national elements would be made to serve the new unity. Timo Saloniemi

January 8 2013, 04:21 PM	#7
Count Zero Your fluffy highness Location: Land of Awesome	Re: Early Federation 2161+ Ooh, that sounds interesting. Thanks for the heads-up. __________________ "Mama always told me not to look into the eyes of the sun. But Mama, that's where the fun is." Wanna talk all things pony? Hop over to Brony Kingdom. We have cookies!

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US