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Old January 7 2013, 10:21 PM   #16
Timo
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

Well, every instance of Mirror Universe hinges on a cosmic coincidence - and a different one for each instance! But there's nothing wrong as such with a cosmic anomaly that hinges on a cosmic coincidence...

The "middle timeline" in this episode is not a unique one by any means. It's just one out of the infinite number that would have resulted in the E-C being sent back in time and giving birth to the regular TNG timeline. It's also a "lower rank" timeline, one that was predestined to only last for a few decades and culminate in its own nullification. Having it feature dramatically interesting characters is just a nice choice by the camera crew, which could have provided us with the view of just about any such timeline, including ones where completely unknown characters send the E-C back, and ones where the E-C is not sent back and everybody dies.

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Old January 7 2013, 10:27 PM   #17
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

Christopher wrote: View Post
The main thing that bugged me about "Yesterday's Enterprise" was that the Galaxy class was in use at all.
We have no idea what the full internal structure of the alternate Galaxy was like. Tasha said it was capable of transporting over 6,000 troops. For all we know, the whole ship was completely different on the inside than the version we know. The quarters could all be spartan barracks, with the rest of it turned into weapons testing labs, training grounds, phaser control rooms, etc.
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Old January 7 2013, 10:41 PM   #18
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

Anwar wrote: View Post
It would've been kind of cool to have Worf be one of the Klingon Commanders attacking the Enterprise at the end.
I always thought that was a missed opportunity.
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Old January 7 2013, 11:16 PM   #19
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

On second thought, having Worf be one of the attackers in YE would've worked better than having him be the Regent in the DS9 Mirror episodes. There it just felt like a gratuitous way to have everything revolve around the series regulars. But here it would've felt more tragic -- the change in history had turned allies into enemies, with Worf trying to kill people who were his friends in the "right" universe. It would've intensified the stakes, made them more personal and tangible to the viewer.
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Old January 8 2013, 12:14 AM   #20
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

Christopher wrote: View Post
change in history had turned allies into enemies, with Worf trying to kill people who were his friends in the "right" universe.
Isn't that basically what Regent Worf was doing in the DS9 episodes? Garak may not have been Worf's friend in the RU, but a lot of those other people are.

Me, I'm wondering what Troi would have been like in the alternate timeline. Perhaps Starfleet would have employed Betazoids to use their telepathy on the offensive, as it were?
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Old January 8 2013, 12:53 AM   #21
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
change in history had turned allies into enemies, with Worf trying to kill people who were his friends in the "right" universe.
Isn't that basically what Regent Worf was doing in the DS9 episodes? Garak may not have been Worf's friend in the RU, but a lot of those other people are.
The point is that it would've served the drama of that particular episode by providing another reason why it was so important to restore the "correct" timeline. That's not an issue in the Mirror Universe stories. Worf's Regency wasn't about exploring the tragedy of the altered circumstances, but about "Wouldn't it be fun to see Worf as a scenery-chewing bad guy?" And about "We're paying Michael Dorn a lot of money to show up every week, so we need to stick him into the MU somewhere."
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Old January 8 2013, 02:33 AM   #22
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

I wonder why they didn't make Worf the commander of one of the BoPs? After all, wouldn't it have been easier to have Dorn record the line "Federation ship Enterprise, surrender and prepare to be boarded," than finding someone else to say that line?
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Old January 8 2013, 02:44 AM   #23
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
I wonder why they didn't make Worf the commander of one of the BoPs? After all, wouldn't it have been easier to have Dorn record the line "Federation ship Enterprise, surrender and prepare to be boarded," than finding someone else to say that line?
So Worf just HAPPENS to be in command of the ships that attack the Enterprise at the end? I have a hard enough time believing the main characters were together in the AU.

I think that would have crossed the line into being too silly. Being too silly was what doomed the writing for all the later MU episodes of DS9.
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Old January 8 2013, 03:31 AM   #24
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

Dream wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
I wonder why they didn't make Worf the commander of one of the BoPs? After all, wouldn't it have been easier to have Dorn record the line "Federation ship Enterprise, surrender and prepare to be boarded," than finding someone else to say that line?
So Worf just HAPPENS to be in command of the ships that attack the Enterprise at the end? I have a hard enough time believing the main characters were together in the AU.

I think that would have crossed the line into being too silly. Being too silly was what doomed the writing for all the later MU episodes of DS9.
Oh, why the hell not? Aside from the ship's counselor, everyone else is on board the Enterprise D, including the teenaged bridge officer and civilian bartender. Worf showing up wouldn't be the ulitmate line that should not be crossed. Beisdes, we get this sort of thing all the time in AU stories.

I doubt anyone cared about presenting an alternate reality as implausible, and from a production viewpoint it must have been esaier to have Dorn record the line instead of finding someone else to do it. Asking why they didn't is perfectly legitimate.
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Old January 8 2013, 03:40 AM   #25
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Oh, why the hell not? Aside from the ship's counselor, everyone else is on board the Enterprise D, including the teenaged bridge officer and civilian bartender. Worf showing up wouldn't be the ulitmate line that should not be crossed. Beisdes, we get this sort of thing all the time in AU stories.

I doubt anyone cared about presenting an alternate reality as implausible, and from a production viewpoint it must have been esaier to have Dorn record the line instead of finding someone else to do it. Asking why they didn't is perfectly legitimate.
I think the writers realized that Dorn had nothing to do in the episode so they gave Worf that great Prune Juice scene with Guinan that started the episode.

When Worf showed up as one of the bad guys in that MU DS9 episode, I couldn't help but roll my eyes and think of how campy and stupid the MU episodes had become.

Would it have worked? Maybe.

But I was glad they didn't do it.
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Old January 8 2013, 07:18 AM   #26
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

Anwar wrote: View Post
It would've been kind of cool to have Worf be one of the Klingon Commanders attacking the Enterprise at the end.
That happened in DS9, but he wasn't attacking enterprise but the Defiant.
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Old January 8 2013, 03:41 PM   #27
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

In fact the original script even mentions that, if they wanted, the Klingon voice at the end could be Worf (if that's what they wanted to do).
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Old January 8 2013, 05:53 PM   #28
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

Dream wrote: View Post
When Worf showed up as one of the bad guys in that MU DS9 episode, I couldn't help but roll my eyes and think of how campy and stupid the MU episodes had become.
Well, I certainly won't deny that Worf being the evil emperor that dragged Garak around on a leash was a bit over the top (as was every woman being a lesbian), the MU always was campy going all the way back to Mirror, Mirror. Officer's worked their way up the ranks by killing their superiors, with those caught for their misdeeds getting brutal punishments. Women basically being the ship's whores. Everyone having their own henchmen. Mirror. Mirror was more camp than it was a profound exploration of characters developing under different circumstances.
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Old January 8 2013, 05:59 PM   #29
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

^That's basically right. I don't know if I'd call "Mirror, Mirror" camp, but it definitely went for the lurid and melodramatic, embracing broad "evil twin" tropes wholeheartedly (and codifying one, namely the evil-twin goatee). The MU episodes on DS9 largely continued that tradition, but were able to take it further in their era of lesser censorship.
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Old January 8 2013, 06:01 PM   #30
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Episode question

Timo wrote: View Post

Would the redesigns affect the hull shape, though? Hulls seem sacrosanct in Trek: ships like Voyager apparently won't move properly unless Kazon suicide boats or the holes left by them are patched up. Redesigning the exterior of a starship might be major work, quite possibly not worth doing for that extra 15% of combat agility or whatnot.

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I'm with Timo on this, I'd always kind of assumed the hull shape was the same, but filled with very different contents.

For example instead of science labs there would be rows of bunks for troops, combat training facilities alongside Holodecks redesigned for troop training more than leisure, and more stock of torpedoes and war materiel.

The hull could have been largely sketched out for years, and the windows etc. left in as they were no particular detriment to combat performance...
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