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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old January 7 2013, 07:38 PM   #31
22 Stars
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

If you are talking budget, STIII has a planet, falling apart, with fire and breakaway sets, I don't remember THAT in STII. Also, besides the Genesis cave in II, there are NO other 'exteriors' required, smart for a film to be shot on a TV movie budget. That is not the case for STIII. Nimoy and crew had to simulate 'all varieties of land and weather' on a modest budget. STIII also has more new ship designs, like them or not.

ST IV was a masterpiece and the best thing to happen to Star Trek since the second season. It brought the franchise to a whole new mainstream audience and made a ton of money, and may very well could be the reason Paramount green lit STTNG.

How anyone can dismiss Nimoy's directing contributions to Star Trek is beyond me. Without him we wouldn't have had the same ST IV or VI, THAT is a pretty good track record, not to mention other bankable film success. Three men and a baby is a classic

PS. ST V stinks, and you know it
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Old January 8 2013, 12:34 AM   #32
Maurice
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

trevanian wrote: View Post
..."Nimoy's track record" includes a film so bad it nearly went unreleased (it underwent such extreme editing that one of the movie's stars, the late Farrah Fawcett, was cut entirely)...
For the record, that film would be Funny About Love (1990).
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Old January 8 2013, 01:51 AM   #33
trevanian
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

22 Stars wrote: View Post
If you are talking budget, STIII has a planet, falling apart, with fire and breakaway sets, I don't remember THAT in STII. Also, besides the Genesis cave in II, there are NO other 'exteriors' required, smart for a film to be shot on a TV movie budget. That is not the case for STIII. Nimoy and crew had to simulate 'all varieties of land and weather' on a modest budget. STIII also has more new ship designs, like them or not.

ST IV was a masterpiece and the best thing to happen to Star Trek since the second season. It brought the franchise to a whole new mainstream audience and made a ton of money, and may very well could be the reason Paramount green lit STTNG.

How anyone can dismiss Nimoy's directing contributions to Star Trek is beyond me. Without him we wouldn't have had the same ST IV or VI, THAT is a pretty good track record, not to mention other bankable film success. Three men and a baby is a classic

PS. ST V stinks, and you know it
I'll take these points in reverse order, just cuz.

ST V tries, and it succeeds for me at least as often as it fails, which puts it way ahead of the Nimoy films.

I'm sure TVH's success IS why we got TNG ... but I don't want to go off on another essay about how ModernTrek (with the exception of DS9) was mostly a waste of time.

TWOK had the Genesis tape, which is more production value in its own way than all of the damn planet stuff in SFS. Spending as much as they did on spacedock and all the new ships is part of the reason the planet stuff looks so weak, they didn't have the resources to do it all, especially since you have the whole 'procession on Vulcan that got cut' which was major dollars down the drain (even vfx work for that part of the film was mostly completed before it was dropped.)

Sort of half on the subject ... I was rereading an old CINEFANTASTIQUE -- it is the TREK MOVIE TRILOGY issue, mostly about SFS, some about TVH and with a Meyer interview -- and that had a Deforest Kelley interview. In it, he mentions that they actually shot a bar fight sequence but that it didn't turn out right and they then decided to not reshoot it. He actually gives specifics in terms of the waitress failling into one guy and such.

Has ANYBODY ever seen any stills from this 'missing' scene? I've never seen it in any script, but then again, the scripts available for SFS seem to be of the 'after the movie is done' variety instead of working versions.
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Old January 9 2013, 11:13 PM   #34
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

The bar fight was actually detailed (quickly) in the DC comics adaptation of the movie. That's all I know of it.
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Old January 10 2013, 06:01 AM   #35
Maurice
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

From the Revised Final Draft, October 7, 1983

McCOY
Where's the logic in offering me a
ride home, you idiot! If I wanted
a ride home, would I be trying to
charter a space flight?!
(then)
How the hell do you know who I am?

CIVILIAN
Federation Security, sir.
It's a bad moment for the agent to have announced him-
self. A desperate Bones releases the Alien and rises
to his feet just as the Waitress arrives with his Alt-
air water on a tray. The Altair water spills on the
Alien.

83 SERIES OF CUTS

The Alien, hit by the water, leaps to his feet in rage.

The Waitress is knocked into a group of people.

More spilling of drinks.

A bystander, thinking the Alien hit the Waitress, hits
him.

A general scuffle begins.

Meanwhile, McCoy tries to race around the "Civilian's"
end of the confusion, but the agent (very big), grabs
him. Bones, in confusion and panic, suddenly turns,
wild-eyed, and attempts a Vulcan nerve pinch on his
tormentor. The nerve pinch has absolutely no effect,
and the agent stares at Bones for a long moment.
CIVILIAN
You're going to get a nice, long
rest, Doctor.
He ushers Bones out as the brouhaha continues in b.g.

CUT TO:

84 EXT GENESIS PLANET - AREA 3 - SNOWSCAPE
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Old January 10 2013, 06:05 PM   #36
trevanian
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

Thanks, hard to tell from that if we missed out on a TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES level scuffle or something more modest in scope. I guess along with the Vulcan procession, these are things we won't see until well after Nimoy's passing.
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Old January 10 2013, 07:27 PM   #37
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

I'd love to see the rough cut of Star Trek III. I read the script, and there are many bits that didn't make it into the final film - such as Kirk consoling Bones as they're flying to Vulcan.

During the "Stealing the Enterprise" sequence, there is a section of music after McCoy's breakout that was scored, but not used - 20-30 seconds of footage, I think. A brief fight, I think.

I love Nimoy's direction in 3 and 4. One aspect I like about ST3 is the use of color. Lots of bright colors in the lighting - reds, pinks, greens, all very vivid. Nice contrast to the washed out look of TMP.
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Old January 11 2013, 03:26 PM   #38
22 Stars
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

trevanian wrote: View Post
22 Stars wrote: View Post
If you are talking budget, STIII has a planet, falling apart, with fire and breakaway sets, I don't remember THAT in STII. Also, besides the Genesis cave in II, there are NO other 'exteriors' required, smart for a film to be shot on a TV movie budget. That is not the case for STIII. Nimoy and crew had to simulate 'all varieties of land and weather' on a modest budget. STIII also has more new ship designs, like them or not.

ST IV was a masterpiece and the best thing to happen to Star Trek since the second season. It brought the franchise to a whole new mainstream audience and made a ton of money, and may very well could be the reason Paramount green lit STTNG.

How anyone can dismiss Nimoy's directing contributions to Star Trek is beyond me. Without him we wouldn't have had the same ST IV or VI, THAT is a pretty good track record, not to mention other bankable film success. Three men and a baby is a classic

PS. ST V stinks, and you know it
I'll take these points in reverse order, just cuz.

ST V tries, and it succeeds for me at least as often as it fails, which puts it way ahead of the Nimoy films.

I'm sure TVH's success IS why we got TNG ... but I don't want to go off on another essay about how ModernTrek (with the exception of DS9) was mostly a waste of time.

TWOK had the Genesis tape, which is more production value in its own way than all of the damn planet stuff in SFS. Spending as much as they did on spacedock and all the new ships is part of the reason the planet stuff looks so weak, they didn't have the resources to do it all, especially since you have the whole 'procession on Vulcan that got cut' which was major dollars down the drain (even vfx work for that part of the film was mostly completed before it was dropped.)

Sort of half on the subject ... I was rereading an old CINEFANTASTIQUE -- it is the TREK MOVIE TRILOGY issue, mostly about SFS, some about TVH and with a Meyer interview -- and that had a Deforest Kelley interview. In it, he mentions that they actually shot a bar fight sequence but that it didn't turn out right and they then decided to not reshoot it. He actually gives specifics in terms of the waitress failling into one guy and such.

Has ANYBODY ever seen any stills from this 'missing' scene? I've never seen it in any script, but then again, the scripts available for SFS seem to be of the 'after the movie is done' variety instead of working versions.
Well, to each their own, I'm glad you can enjoy ST V as much as you do, and for me the II III IV trilogy will always be a high point for the franchise. It's fun talking about these films for me anytime, brings back a lot of good memories.

As far as the planet stuff, it's not simply that the money to do other stuff took away from the Genesis Planet set, there is a huge budget differential between going on location and shooting on set, any set. They could have thrown a million more dollars at the Genesis set and it wouldn't have looked much better. Unfortunately with today's fx tools, they could shoot some second unit stuff on location and seamlessly merge that with the live action and make Genesis look like something from Lord of the Rings instead of movie set.
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Old January 11 2013, 05:32 PM   #39
milo bloom
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

Maybe it's just because it came out when my family was really into renting videos, but I think every other trip to the rental place I brought home The Search for Spock and it became one of my favorites.

It doesn't fit the mold of most Trek adventures, and I think that's its strength. It's the people we know being forced out of their comfort zones.
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Old January 11 2013, 05:50 PM   #40
trevanian
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

22 Stars wrote: View Post

As far as the planet stuff, it's not simply that the money to do other stuff took away from the Genesis Planet set, there is a huge budget differential between going on location and shooting on set, any set. They could have thrown a million more dollars at the Genesis set and it wouldn't have looked much better. Unfortunately with today's fx tools, they could shoot some second unit stuff on location and seamlessly merge that with the live action and make Genesis look like something from Lord of the Rings instead of movie set.
You're almost certainly right about all that. I remember reading that the original SFS plan involved shooting Genesis in Hawaii and possibly Mt St Helens (!!!) and Vulcan in Red Rock Valley or some longtime Western movie locale, but budget issues scotched all that early on.

I'm kind of torn on the 'how convincing do you need to be' thing, because I deeply believe what Joe Jennings said (according to Mike Minor anyway) is right, that to postulate a whole new world with its own unique virgin ecosystem, but then deliver a touched up version of our own planet with all the erosion and signs of being tampered with, is NOT GOOD SCIENCE FICTION.

But it is hard to argue with films that combine deftly-integrated location work with clever and imaginative VFX touches. And part of my problem with SFS is that it seems like the budget is shrinking as the movie progresses, going from some expansive (if unconvincing) Genesis stuff to the mountaintop on Vulcan, which looks like BAD DAY AT STRATOS ROCK if you know what I mean. Maybe if they kept the big procession with the big head sculptures it would have helped.
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Old January 13 2013, 09:02 AM   #41
KarmicCurse
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

I've never heard of this procession bit before. What are the known details?

I agree since they couldn't film Genesis on location and had to create it in the studio, they missed an opportunity to create something really original.
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Old January 14 2013, 01:20 AM   #42
trevanian
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

The CFQ issue mentioned upthread has some stuff on it, including some production art in color. It is basically a sequence bridging between the BoP landing on Vulcan and everybody being way up the mountain in the temple. Everybody goes walking up, and a little girl does a 'live long & prosper' thing I think as Spock is carried past. I've been told there's even a pic of that somewhere, maybe on the bubble gum card set.

There is this Vulcan Hall of Big Heads (not what they call it) where they used a bunch of large photo cutouts that supposedly looked cool. I think at least one of the matte shots for the sequence wasn't even finished, probably this was cut when they first got their cut assembled. I think the cinematographer is quoted about it in that issue, saying something like 'the audience would have been getting ahead of them if he kept all that in the movie.' Surprised it never got put in as an extra to sate all those Vulcanolics out there.
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Old January 14 2013, 04:23 PM   #43
22 Stars
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

trevanian wrote: View Post
The CFQ issue mentioned upthread has some stuff on it, including some production art in color. It is basically a sequence bridging between the BoP landing on Vulcan and everybody being way up the mountain in the temple. Everybody goes walking up, and a little girl does a 'live long & prosper' thing I think as Spock is carried past. I've been told there's even a pic of that somewhere, maybe on the bubble gum card set.

There is this Vulcan Hall of Big Heads (not what they call it) where they used a bunch of large photo cutouts that supposedly looked cool. I think at least one of the matte shots for the sequence wasn't even finished, probably this was cut when they first got their cut assembled. I think the cinematographer is quoted about it in that issue, saying something like 'the audience would have been getting ahead of them if he kept all that in the movie.' Surprised it never got put in as an extra to sate all those Vulcanolics out there.
And that Vulcan child even gets a credit at the end of the film, so that is even stranger! Yeah, I love the Vulcans and would love to see this footage someday, even if it lasts for just a few seconds.

I thought i would also mention my favorite nuPhaser and Communicator are from III. I know the props are a small part to most people, but there is an avid prop fandom community and these are just elegant re imaginings of the classics.
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Old January 14 2013, 07:55 PM   #44
trevanian
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

Anything and everything would be an improvement on that communicator from TWOK. Looks like it came straight from ww2, though I read it was actually a Vietnam item that got plated with silver.

When I saw that thing opening night, it utterly undid the joy of seeing somebody flipping open a communicator again after all those years, because I just couldn't stop gawking at that ugly bulky PoS.

Kinda made me think later that the company that supplied it should have been called Obsolete Props instead of Modern Props.
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Old January 15 2013, 03:33 PM   #45
22 Stars
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Re: The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

Lol, i believe the II comm is an metal electrical outlet box, the kind installed inside the wall during new construction. And yes, it is ugly and doesn't actually 'flip'!! a big WTF moment back then. At least it was shaped more like a classic com and not the wrist comm from TMP.
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