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Old January 1 2013, 02:20 AM   #196
OdoWanKenobi
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

Tarantino and subtle are not two words I ever really associate.
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Old January 1 2013, 02:36 AM   #197
Nightowl1701
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

One shocking fact I learned today about the film: In the scene where DiCaprio saws open the skull of his old family servant (supposedly to show the genetic inferiority of the black man), I was left wondering why his left hand was bleeding all over the place. Turns out he actually DID accidentally cut his own hand open with the saw (it wasn't in the script), and he just went with it in a paroxysm of method acting that so impressed QT he used that take in the film (yes, Kerry Washington got an unexpected faceful of REAL Leo blood).
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Old January 1 2013, 05:54 AM   #198
davejames
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

Nightowl1701 wrote: View Post
One shocking fact I learned today about the film: In the scene where DiCaprio saws open the skull of his old family servant (supposedly to show the genetic inferiority of the black man), I was left wondering why his left hand was bleeding all over the place. Turns out he actually DID accidentally cut his own hand open with the saw (it wasn't in the script), and he just went with it in a paroxysm of method acting that so impressed QT he used that take in the film (yes, Kerry Washington got an unexpected faceful of REAL Leo blood).
Wow. And that wasn't just a little bit of blood either.
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Old January 1 2013, 10:12 PM   #199
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

Thinking back on my earilier comment regarding the prominence of Schulz in the movie, I've been wondering if perhaps this movie is really about his journey. If you look at the movie as having a plot of Django getting his woman back the movie definitely makes this progression from start to finish. However in terms of character growth and change I think it might be argued that this is where the movie may really be more about King Schulz.

Django may provide the physical conflict but the dramatic conflict really resides with Schulz. Especially with the dog scene, we see that Django is who he is at that point yet Schulz was still in motion.
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Old January 1 2013, 11:12 PM   #200
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

^
Interesting. But I'm not sure we actually got much of a character growth arc out of either Django or Schultz. Schultz didn't like slavery from jump, though he was not above using it to get what he wanted from Django. And Django wanted his wife back from jump and never wavered in that.

Perhaps Django's attitude toward other slaves changed, but I would argue that he was merely playing a role at Candyland until he and Schultz got exposed. So it wasn't like there was a sea change there either. More that he had to bury his real feelings until he accomplished his objective.

With Schultz, feeling some responsibility for Django, as well as disgust over slavery, it felt like a logical progression for him to take action against Candie like that. I don't think it was an epiphany kind of moment. Even his action, which imperiled Django and Broomhilda, didn't seem like a change in his character to me.
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Old January 3 2013, 09:55 PM   #201
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

DarKush wrote: View Post
^
Interesting. But I'm not sure we actually got much of a character growth arc out of either Django or Schultz. Schultz didn't like slavery from jump, though he was not above using it to get what he wanted from Django. And Django wanted his wife back from jump and never wavered in that.

Perhaps Django's attitude toward other slaves changed, but I would argue that he was merely playing a role at Candyland until he and Schultz got exposed. So it wasn't like there was a sea change there either. More that he had to bury his real feelings until he accomplished his objective.

With Schultz, feeling some responsibility for Django, as well as disgust over slavery, it felt like a logical progression for him to take action against Candie like that. I don't think it was an epiphany kind of moment. Even his action, which imperiled Django and Broomhilda, didn't seem like a change in his character to me.
Agree with your take on Shultz. But with regard to Django, I don't think at the beginning of the story he had any use for any white man. Schultz broke through that barrior. I honestly thought that Django had something close to love for Schults in the end. So, I do think Django had some growth.
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Old January 4 2013, 12:28 AM   #202
davejames
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Django may provide the physical conflict but the dramatic conflict really resides with Schulz. Especially with the dog scene, we see that Django is who he is at that point yet Schulz was still in motion.
I don't think the dog scene was any kind of turning point for Schultz; he had just never seen anything as brutal and horrific as that before, and was no longer able to hide his revulsion.
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Old January 4 2013, 07:08 AM   #203
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

davejames wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Django may provide the physical conflict but the dramatic conflict really resides with Schulz. Especially with the dog scene, we see that Django is who he is at that point yet Schulz was still in motion.
I don't think the dog scene was any kind of turning point for Schultz; he had just never seen anything as brutal and horrific as that before, and was no longer able to hide his revulsion.
Read what you wrote there, I'm not so sure you didn't just show that it was a turning point.
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Old January 7 2013, 05:00 AM   #204
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

gblews wrote: View Post
DarKush wrote: View Post
^
Interesting. But I'm not sure we actually got much of a character growth arc out of either Django or Schultz. Schultz didn't like slavery from jump, though he was not above using it to get what he wanted from Django. And Django wanted his wife back from jump and never wavered in that.

Perhaps Django's attitude toward other slaves changed, but I would argue that he was merely playing a role at Candyland until he and Schultz got exposed. So it wasn't like there was a sea change there either. More that he had to bury his real feelings until he accomplished his objective.

With Schultz, feeling some responsibility for Django, as well as disgust over slavery, it felt like a logical progression for him to take action against Candie like that. I don't think it was an epiphany kind of moment. Even his action, which imperiled Django and Broomhilda, didn't seem like a change in his character to me.
Agree with your take on Shultz. But with regard to Django, I don't think at the beginning of the story he had any use for any white man. Schultz broke through that barrior. I honestly thought that Django had something close to love for Schults in the end. So, I do think Django had some growth.
With Django's feelings towards white men. I ask, can you blame him? From what little we got of his past, white men had been nothing but cruel to him. So we do see some of Django's perplexed reactions almost from when he first meets Schultz that the dentist is something else all together than the white men that Django has dealt with. I wouldn't consider it breaking through a barrier, as if the onus was on Django and not the white men who had enslaved and brutalized him.

Also, Schultz wasn't above using Django's slave status for his own ends, despite his abolitionist leanings. So even there, there was some exploitation from another white man. But Schultz's other treatment of Django, as an equal and partner, did elicit an emotional response in return, or that's the way I saw it when he touched Schultz's corpse in the barn before grabbing Broomhilda's freedom papers.

Once again, I'm not sure how much that registered as a change in Django. His main objective was to get his wife back. Schultz was going to help him do that, so Schultz was useful to him. Schultz needed help in the bounty hunting business, so he needed Django. It was a mutually beneficial relationship, relatively speaking. But Schultz never changed from his abolitionist stance and Django never changed from wanting his wife back.

If there were any changes, there were not major ones, but of degree. Perhaps Schultz, pre-Django had been willing to live with the evils of slavery, but after meeting Django and Broomhilda, was more willing to confront it head on. His abolitionist feelings increased, but does that constitute a character arc?

Same with Django, he did have some feeling-of friendship, companionship-for Schultz. Even though white men had been cruel to him, I can't say it was beyond his capacity to not have some kind of fraternal feeling for any white man pre-Schultz. But meeting this white man that he could trust, that laid his life down on the line after buying Broomhilda's freedom (though his actions imperiled that freedom), certainly had an affect on him, but does that equate to a character arc?
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Old January 7 2013, 06:20 AM   #205
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

DarKush wrote: View Post
gblews wrote: View Post
DarKush wrote: View Post
^
Interesting. But I'm not sure we actually got much of a character growth arc out of either Django or Schultz. Schultz didn't like slavery from jump, though he was not above using it to get what he wanted from Django. And Django wanted his wife back from jump and never wavered in that.

Perhaps Django's attitude toward other slaves changed, but I would argue that he was merely playing a role at Candyland until he and Schultz got exposed. So it wasn't like there was a sea change there either. More that he had to bury his real feelings until he accomplished his objective.

With Schultz, feeling some responsibility for Django, as well as disgust over slavery, it felt like a logical progression for him to take action against Candie like that. I don't think it was an epiphany kind of moment. Even his action, which imperiled Django and Broomhilda, didn't seem like a change in his character to me.
Agree with your take on Shultz. But with regard to Django, I don't think at the beginning of the story he had any use for any white man. Schultz broke through that barrior. I honestly thought that Django had something close to love for Schults in the end. So, I do think Django had some growth.
Same with Django, he did have some feeling-of friendship, companionship-for Schultz. Even though white men had been cruel to him, I can't say it was beyond his capacity to not have some kind of fraternal feeling for any white man pre-Schultz. But meeting this white man that he could trust, that laid his life down on the line after buying Broomhilda's freedom (though his actions imperiled that freedom), certainly had an affect on him, but does that equate to a character arc?
Well, I didn't say Django's feelings about Shuultz at the end represented a "character arc". I said that it represented "some growth" (in the Django character), and it did. Django probably didn't think he had the capacity to actually love and respect a white man, but in the end found out that he did because of his relationship with Schultz.
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Old January 8 2013, 01:04 AM   #206
DarKush
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

^
I don't think that capacity or lack thereof was ever really evident in the film. He did come to respect and trust Schultz but there wasn't much explored that said that that would be impossible for Django to do before hand. We can assume that Django would have major trust issues with white males, and wisely so, but I can't say that that is supported by what we saw in the film.
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Old January 8 2013, 09:57 PM   #207
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

DarKush wrote: View Post
^
I don't think that capacity or lack thereof was ever really evident in the film. He did come to respect and trust Schultz but there wasn't much explored that said that that would be impossible for Django to do before hand. We can assume that Django would have major trust issues with white males, and wisely so, but I can't say that that is supported by what we saw in the film.
No, we didn't her Django state that he he (now) loved a white man but that scene where he kissed his hand and touched Schultz' body, I think, said it all. Django was a slave, a field slave, the lowliest of the low. His presumed contempt and mistrust for white people, men in particular, needs no explanation or much illustration.

Schultz helps Django free himself from slavery and hone the skils that would help Django stay free himself and save his wife's life. Schultz, who hates the evil that is slavery and therefore slaveowners, proves it by killing one knowing full well he will likely die for what he has done. He essentially died for his ideals.

I don't think there is much reason to wonder about how Django feels about white men at the beginning of the movie and no reason to qestion or doubt his feelings about at least one white man at the end of the movie. Understand, I'm not saying Django's view of white people/men changed by the end of the movie, but he finds out in the end that he does have the capacity to care for a white man. That, to me, represents "some" growth at least.
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Old January 9 2013, 11:52 AM   #208
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

So, I just watched the movie, and while I loved the first ~2 hours, I really have a problem with the ending. Am I missing some deeper metaphorical message or what or was it supposed to be a fairy tale or something? It felt really kind of out of touch with the rest of the movie, almost like a dream sequence. Imo the movie should have either ended with Schultz shaking Candie's hand and walking out of there with Django and Broomhilda or with all three of them dead right there after Schultz shoots Candie.

It made absolutely no sense for Django to be "punished" the way he was, without even any supervision by some of Candyland's overseers. An "uppity" black guy who causes the death of a very prominent white man and numerous other white guys in Mississippi in 1858 just being sold to some mining company like that is absurd. And yes, there was this speech by Stephen, but that made no sense either; castrating Django would've just been the start of his punishment.

Very strange. I'm just not sure wether the ending was shit or I'm just missing some nuance Tarantino was going for there.
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Old January 9 2013, 05:21 PM   #209
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

Without the ending, it isn't Django Unchained, it's Dr. King Schultz: Dentist Bounty Hunter and his Valet Django. Up until the end sequence, the movie is about a German hero who buys a black slave, frees the other slaves, shows his slave bounty hunting, uses his slave, frees his slave, teaches him some German mythology, teaches him how to shoot, speak, read, and dress, and then formulates a plan to free his former slaves wife. With the end sequence Django is once again enslaved, but is now able to make his own opportunity to escape, take the opportunity he made, free not only himself but the other slaves, formulate his own plan of attack and implement it by killing the trackers once they are isolated and then lying in wait to kill the plantation staff, the plantation mistress, and the head house slave, and free his wife. Without the end sequence, Django never becomes himself.
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Old January 9 2013, 06:20 PM   #210
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Re: Django Unchained--Tarintino's new project

True. But then they should have killed Schultz sooner, maybe immediately after Candie discovering his deception and let Django do the rest. Or at least have Django escape in some way that's less hard to believe.
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