Will I like Torchwood if I never saw Doctor Who? - Page 2

Takeru · January 7 2013, 09:42 AM

I always thought Torchwood was a really juvenile show, all this violence and sex was so ridiculous all I could think was a bunch of 12 year old must be sitting in front of the tv, giggling because they're watching an 'adult' show witch boobs and cursing. The only time Torchwood was good was Season 3, must have been accidental because after that it went back to being awful.

The worst part was that Torchwood never realized it was ridiculous, the actors played it completely serious and I'm sure the director's had curse counters and boobiemeters to make sure enough cursing and/or sex appeared in every episode so that the audience knows it's a serious show for adults with sex and stuff.

God, I hate that show (except season 3 and a few episodes of season 2), so much potential and almost all of it was wasted.

MacLeod · January 7 2013, 09:53 AM

Well Season 4 has been debated a fair bit on this forum, it might have worked beter as a 5 parter seasin like CoE, but it was stretched to fill 10 episodes when the story couldn't support that many episodes.

gastrof · January 7 2013, 11:55 AM

Christopher wrote:

Dream wrote:

Just wondering, does the Doctor ever appear on TW?

One part of him did, but was never identified as such.

Okay...

THAT one I'd like explained.

DalekJim · January 7 2013, 01:02 PM

Takeru wrote:

I always thought Torchwood was a really juvenile show, all this violence and sex was so ridiculous all I could think was a bunch of 12 year old must be sitting in front of the tv, giggling because they're watching an 'adult' show witch boobs and cursing. The only time Torchwood was good was Season 3, must have been accidental because after that it went back to being awful.

The worst part was that Torchwood never realized it was ridiculous, the actors played it completely serious and I'm sure the director's had curse counters and boobiemeters to make sure enough cursing and/or sex appeared in every episode so that the audience knows it's a serious show for adults with sex and stuff.

God, I hate that show (except season 3 and a few episodes of season 2), so much potential and almost all of it was wasted.

You're far from alone, most Doctor Who fans feel this way. Personally I can't even stand to look at John Barrowman a lot of the time. One of the most intolerable people on television.

I got very tired of RTD's obsession with camp by the end. Miracle Day is one of the laziest pieces of writing I've seen on TV for a long time which is a shame as it had so much potential.

Alidar Jarok · January 7 2013, 01:41 PM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

Alidar Jarok wrote:

It's a vague spinoff. I'm not sure what to make of your analogy, so I'll just use my own. It's like The Jeffersons and All in the Family. They both exist in the same universe, but they're capable of existing independently.

Also like Law & Order and Homicide: Life on the Street.

Well, those were two separate shows with the occasional cross-over. That's not quite the same thing.

Blamo · January 7 2013, 01:48 PM

Nope, no requirement to see Doctor Who prior to Torchwodod.

Personally speaking, the show is a bit irregular in it's quality and has numerous issues.

Season 1 could be subtitled "Men Rule, Women Drool" given the majority of the seasons treatment of women. It's so bad the show actually felt openly misogynistic without having to read too deeply into it. I'm still not sure if that came about purely by accident... but even then it seems a stretch to say all those coincidences didn't add up to some deep seated misogyny.

I mean come on, there were only 13 episodes and in them the only two times lesbian sexuality was brought up, they were both due to a woman possessed by an evil alien. Different women possessed by different aliens I might add.

The season arc is pretty much everything you'd expect from an RTD run show, in that it was utterly awful and totally nonsensical.

Season 1 felt like an immature view of what an adult show should be, with a focus on sex and swearing rather than adult characterisation and issues ("Cyberwoman" is perhaps the greatest example of what it's target audience truly was, or atleast the mental age of it's writers.)

Season 2 was an improvement, but that's not saying much. The characters however are now more likable, much better written and a lot of what occured to them in season 1 gets simply forgotten (which is for the better sad to say).

Season 3(the specials) was really excellent and I'd go as far as to say it's probably the best TV sci-fi around (though not something I'd want to watch for extended periods of time). A huge shock compared to the prior two seasons I can tell you. This is what Torchwood should have been and to be honest I wonder how much input RTD actually had in this.

Season 4 I haven't seen.

Overall the only reason I stuck with Torchwood was because of it's connection to Doctor Who. A real real shame since the concept itself was actually good.

Pindar · January 7 2013, 03:13 PM

gastrof wrote:

Christopher wrote:

Dream wrote:

Just wondering, does the Doctor ever appear on TW?

One part of him did, but was never identified as such.

Okay...

THAT one I'd like explained.

The hand he lost in the Christmas Invasion.

Christopher · January 7 2013, 03:17 PM

Takeru wrote:

I always thought Torchwood was a really juvenile show, all this violence and sex was so ridiculous all I could think was a bunch of 12 year old must be sitting in front of the tv, giggling because they're watching an 'adult' show witch boobs and cursing.

Except there weren't any boobs. Just about all the explicit nudity was male. There was plenty of fanservice for heterosexual women and gay men, but virtually none for people who'd rather look at female bodies.

Blamo wrote:

Season 1 could be subtitled "Men Rule, Women Drool" given the majority of the seasons treatment of women. It's so bad the show actually felt openly misogynistic without having to read too deeply into it. I'm still not sure if that came about purely by accident... but even then it seems a stretch to say all those coincidences didn't add up to some deep seated misogyny.

I don't know where you get "misogyny" from it. Most of the creative staff of the show were gay men, so they were writing material that appealed to gay men, hence the heavy focus on male characters and male sexuality. There were a couple of lesbian scenes, a number of hetero scenes, but the women's bodies were never as exposed as the men's were. The women were less sexualized overall, which doesn't seem consistent with a charge of misogyny.

ATimson · January 7 2013, 03:18 PM

gastrof wrote:

Christopher wrote:

Dream wrote:

Just wondering, does the Doctor ever appear on TW?

One part of him did, but was never identified as such.

Okay...

THAT one I'd like explained.

Steve Mollmann · January 7 2013, 09:06 PM

Christopher wrote:

Blamo wrote:

Season 1 could be subtitled "Men Rule, Women Drool" given the majority of the seasons treatment of women. It's so bad the show actually felt openly misogynistic without having to read too deeply into it. I'm still not sure if that came about purely by accident... but even then it seems a stretch to say all those coincidences didn't add up to some deep seated misogyny.

I don't know where you get "misogyny" from it. Most of the creative staff of the show were gay men, so they were writing material that appealed to gay men, hence the heavy focus on male characters and male sexuality. There were a couple of lesbian scenes, a number of hetero scenes, but the women's bodies were never as exposed as the men's were. The women were less sexualized overall, which doesn't seem consistent with a charge of misogyny.

Wait, who's the gay writer on Torchwood other than Russell T Davies?

Dream · January 7 2013, 10:55 PM

I just started TW. I finished the first two episodes last night.

My first impression? Well this is new. I've NEVER seen a UK show before today, so it took a while getting use to the new locations, cars and the fact that the drivers sit on the right side.

S01E01: Everything Changes
Well it looks like Gwen is going to be our eyes into Torchwood. I thought it was a good pilot, when pilots mostly turn out to be shaky. I liked the murder mystery with the killer and how it ended up being connected with Torchwood. The Weevil was a neat first monster for the show.

The underground Torchwood office looked really cool. There were tons of strange stuff and I look forward to seeing more.

S01E02: Day One
The "sex monster" episode. I remember that Angel also had one for its second episode. The alien gas arrives from a fallen rock and possesses a teenage girl. The girl goes around having sex with people to feed or whatever.

To be honest, I felt a little bored. I've seen this type of story plenty of times before. This episode felt way too much like Species at times. I've noticed how really immature some of the Torchwood characters are at times, especially the part when Owen gets the clothes stolen off his back along with his car keys. I feel like they could almost be high school students instead of trained professionals. That's different... I guess. Still really don't know any of the characters very well except for Gwen. Captain Jack Harkness is still being kept a mystery, with the most important question about whether he is gay or not.

lurok · January 7 2013, 10:58 PM

I much prefer Torchwood to DW. But the first season is awful.

Lindley · January 7 2013, 11:05 PM

The first season really tries too hard to be "adult", and in the process ends up being a bit silly.

The second season is much more self-aware and is the better for it.

The third season is fantastic, but a complete departure from what came before.

Still haven't see all of season 4. I'll probably finish it sometime.

lurok · January 7 2013, 11:11 PM

Agree. S4 has some okay-ish moments (and nice Trek nods) but can't sustain thin premise over length. S2 & 3 definitely the best. Would love another one though in that vein

MacLeod · January 8 2013, 12:04 AM

Well maybe if the BBC decides to fund a new series on it's own, they'll either return to episodic format of S1-2 or go the rout of S4 and only do a 5 parter.

January 7 2013, 09:42 AM	#16
Takeru Captain	Re: Will I like Torchwood if I never saw Doctor Who? I always thought Torchwood was a really juvenile show, all this violence and sex was so ridiculous all I could think was a bunch of 12 year old must be sitting in front of the tv, giggling because they're watching an 'adult' show witch boobs and cursing. The only time Torchwood was good was Season 3, must have been accidental because after that it went back to being awful. The worst part was that Torchwood never realized it was ridiculous, the actors played it completely serious and I'm sure the director's had curse counters and boobiemeters to make sure enough cursing and/or sex appeared in every episode so that the audience knows it's a serious show for adults with sex and stuff. God, I hate that show (except season 3 and a few episodes of season 2), so much potential and almost all of it was wasted.

January 7 2013, 09:53 AM	#17
MacLeod Vice Admiral Location: Great Britain	Re: Will I like Torchwood if I never saw Doctor Who? Well Season 4 has been debated a fair bit on this forum, it might have worked beter as a 5 parter seasin like CoE, but it was stretched to fill 10 episodes when the story couldn't support that many episodes. __________________ On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.

January 7 2013, 01:48 PM	#21
Blamo Fleet Captain Location: UK	Re: Will I like Torchwood if I never saw Doctor Who? Nope, no requirement to see Doctor Who prior to Torchwodod. Personally speaking, the show is a bit irregular in it's quality and has numerous issues. Season 1 could be subtitled "Men Rule, Women Drool" given the majority of the seasons treatment of women. It's so bad the show actually felt openly misogynistic without having to read too deeply into it. I'm still not sure if that came about purely by accident... but even then it seems a stretch to say all those coincidences didn't add up to some deep seated misogyny. I mean come on, there were only 13 episodes and in them the only two times lesbian sexuality was brought up, they were both due to a woman possessed by an evil alien. Different women possessed by different aliens I might add. The season arc is pretty much everything you'd expect from an RTD run show, in that it was utterly awful and totally nonsensical. Season 1 felt like an immature view of what an adult show should be, with a focus on sex and swearing rather than adult characterisation and issues ("Cyberwoman" is perhaps the greatest example of what it's target audience truly was, or atleast the mental age of it's writers.) Season 2 was an improvement, but that's not saying much. The characters however are now more likable, much better written and a lot of what occured to them in season 1 gets simply forgotten (which is for the better sad to say). Season 3(the specials) was really excellent and I'd go as far as to say it's probably the best TV sci-fi around (though not something I'd want to watch for extended periods of time). A huge shock compared to the prior two seasons I can tell you. This is what Torchwood should have been and to be honest I wonder how much input RTD actually had in this. Season 4 I haven't seen. Overall the only reason I stuck with Torchwood was because of it's connection to Doctor Who. A real real shame since the concept itself was actually good.

January 7 2013, 10:55 PM	#26
Dream Admiral	Re: Will I like Torchwood if I never saw Doctor Who? I just started TW. I finished the first two episodes last night. My first impression? Well this is new. I've NEVER seen a UK show before today, so it took a while getting use to the new locations, cars and the fact that the drivers sit on the right side. S01E01: Everything Changes Well it looks like Gwen is going to be our eyes into Torchwood. I thought it was a good pilot, when pilots mostly turn out to be shaky. I liked the murder mystery with the killer and how it ended up being connected with Torchwood. The Weevil was a neat first monster for the show. The underground Torchwood office looked really cool. There were tons of strange stuff and I look forward to seeing more. S01E02: Day One The "sex monster" episode. I remember that Angel also had one for its second episode. The alien gas arrives from a fallen rock and possesses a teenage girl. The girl goes around having sex with people to feed or whatever. To be honest, I felt a little bored. I've seen this type of story plenty of times before. This episode felt way too much like Species at times. I've noticed how really immature some of the Torchwood characters are at times, especially the part when Owen gets the clothes stolen off his back along with his car keys. I feel like they could almost be high school students instead of trained professionals. That's different... I guess. Still really don't know any of the characters very well except for Gwen. Captain Jack Harkness is still being kept a mystery, with the most important question about whether he is gay or not. __________________ TWoP Forums . Last edited by Dream; January 8 2013 at 03:15 AM.

January 7 2013, 10:58 PM	#27
lurok Commodore Location: Lost In The EU Expanse	Re: Will I like Torchwood if I never saw Doctor Who? I much prefer Torchwood to DW. But the first season is awful.

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January 7 2013, 11:05 PM	#28
Lindley Moderator with a Soul Location: Fairfax, VA	Re: Will I like Torchwood if I never saw Doctor Who? The first season really tries too hard to be "adult", and in the process ends up being a bit silly. The second season is much more self-aware and is the better for it. The third season is fantastic, but a complete departure from what came before. Still haven't see all of season 4. I'll probably finish it sometime. __________________ Lead Organizer for EVN: Firefly. "So apparently the really smart zombies have automatic weapons!" -Torg, Sluggy Freelance

January 7 2013, 11:11 PM	#29
lurok Commodore Location: Lost In The EU Expanse	Re: Will I like Torchwood if I never saw Doctor Who? Agree. S4 has some okay-ish moments (and nice Trek nods) but can't sustain thin premise over length. S2 & 3 definitely the best. Would love another one though in that vein

January 8 2013, 12:04 AM	#30
MacLeod Vice Admiral Location: Great Britain	Re: Will I like Torchwood if I never saw Doctor Who? Well maybe if the BBC decides to fund a new series on it's own, they'll either return to episodic format of S1-2 or go the rout of S4 and only do a 5 parter. __________________ On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.