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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old January 7 2013, 12:34 AM   #1006
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

I'm having troubles with the track names. On the set, Track 20 says it is Force Field/Silver Orbs. On the GNP release, these are Tracks 27 Silverly Orbs and Tracks 28 Crippled Ship instead. Crippled Ship Track 21 on the set doesn't match Crippled Ship Track 28 on the GNP release? Am I just confused or is that the case?

Nonetheless, the edit in Track 20 doesn't match the actual episode in any version of the episode I've seen yet enough to sync. I'm still trying different versions to try to find one that matches.
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Old January 7 2013, 12:48 AM   #1007
doubleohfive
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Dalen Quaice wrote: View Post
^LA LA Land should issue a bonus disc or discs with the complete cues, stings, overdubs and an apology for their lack of inclusion in an otherwise complete set. As is, the set has been falsely advertised. People (like me) bought the set based on the marketing and are disappointed. I wish I could return mine as everyday I am even more disappointed as I get deeper into the set. Sorry, but that is how I feel.
You have got to be fucking kidding me. You're making this big a fuss and you haven't even finished listening to the set in its entirety? Are you kidding?


To everyone else:

This is why I hate Star Trek. Not because of the shows or the writers or the movies or what not ... it's the fans. The arrogance, the entitlement, the selfish disregard for anything that isn't exactly what they want, and frankly, the complete ignorance of anything that doesn't jive with what they expect.

This thread was once so fun and now its all but been drained of any kind of joy or excitement. The damn set was a wet dream for most of you in this thread and now that it's finally here, with ~18 hours of music that wasn't previously available, all you guys can do is bitch and complain? Seriously? Seriously? Instead of listening to the music and *gasp* enjoying it, this thread has turned in to a MORE MORE MORE MORE chant for cue sheets and scores cut for each episode, etc. Give me a break! Is there no pleasing you people?

I'm not associated with La-La Land but hot damn, if I were, and I'd been following this thread (especially for the last few pages) you better believe I sure as shit wouldn't come back here after seeing all the rude entitlement some of you have been displaying.

Last edited by doubleohfive; January 7 2013 at 01:01 AM.
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Old January 7 2013, 12:55 AM   #1008
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

^Sorry I ruined the thread for you...
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Old January 7 2013, 01:01 AM   #1009
doubleohfive
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Did you not read my post? I wasn't addressing my indictment solely at you.
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Old January 7 2013, 02:04 AM   #1010
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

I tried scrolling back on this thread but I didn't find any mention of mistakes in the liner notes. I think I found one, though.

In The Enterprise Incident, represented on Disc Three of the Season Three set, track 8 is listed as Vulcanized. This is described as the seduction scene of Spock and the Romulan commander. However, the music sounds like more of an action cue. I decided to reverse track 7 and 8 like so:

7 konked kirk -> vulcanized
8 vulcanized -> konked kirk

Track 7 on the set is obviously the romantic theme, so it makes sense that track 8, which sounds like an action queue, is konked kirk.

It's understandable that an isolated typo like this might slip through with such a large volume of material. I hope it's the only one like this, and that LaLa land lists it somewhere on its website as errata or slip something into the packaging of the remaining sets they haven't shipped yet. We wouldn't want to have anything be mislabeled for posterity.
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Old January 7 2013, 03:01 AM   #1011
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

^Here is another: The air date for Charlie X is incorrect.

SEASON 1, DISC 3
Charlie X
Music Composed and Conducted by Fred Steiner
Episode #8, Recorded 8/29/66
Aired #2, 8/15/66

The episode aired 9/15/66.
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Old January 7 2013, 03:33 AM   #1012
Christopher
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

doubleohfive wrote: View Post
Did you not read my post? I wasn't addressing my indictment solely at you.
Which I don't think is fair. Who else besides Dalen Quaice has been acting that way? The rest of us have asked some questions, but I don't recall anyone else coming off so entitled or accusing the La-La Land people of fraud or anything. So please don't tar the rest of us with the same brush.
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Old January 7 2013, 04:17 AM   #1013
Cap'n Claus
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Dalen Quaice wrote: View Post
^Here is another: The air date for Charlie X is incorrect.

SEASON 1, DISC 3
Charlie X
Music Composed and Conducted by Fred Steiner
Episode #8, Recorded 8/29/66
Aired #2, 8/15/66

The episode aired 9/15/66.
Yeah, this was a typo nobody caught. They know about that one.
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Old January 7 2013, 04:44 AM   #1014
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Well really you don't have to worry about me continually ruining your discussion. I'll be leaving in a day or two as I have work as I mentioned earlier -- I'll check back in a few months and post some episode cue analysis if I can, but my time during the year is limited. I would like to analyze all the episodes and compare against the cues on the discs so that I can re-create complete scores, but I don't know how long that will take me due to the sheer size of such a project and the variety of different episode sources.

I presume the set is what it is.

What we have is what we have and all we will have from LA LA Land. So essentially, we have the next 40 years to analyze it and create our own cue sheets.
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Old January 7 2013, 04:47 AM   #1015
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Dalen Quaice wrote: View Post
I'm having troubles with the track names. On the set, Track 20 says it is Force Field/Silver Orbs. On the GNP release, these are Tracks 27 Silverly Orbs and Tracks 28 Crippled Ship instead. Crippled Ship Track 21 on the set doesn't match Crippled Ship Track 28 on the GNP release? Am I just confused or is that the case?
I think I remember reading on the FSM forums that some of the GNP track names were incorrect, and that the cue names in the new release are in fact correct.
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Old January 7 2013, 04:51 AM   #1016
RandyS
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

doubleohfive wrote: View Post
Dalen Quaice wrote: View Post
^LA LA Land should issue a bonus disc or discs with the complete cues, stings, overdubs and an apology for their lack of inclusion in an otherwise complete set. As is, the set has been falsely advertised. People (like me) bought the set based on the marketing and are disappointed. I wish I could return mine as everyday I am even more disappointed as I get deeper into the set. Sorry, but that is how I feel.
You have got to be fucking kidding me. You're making this big a fuss and you haven't even finished listening to the set in its entirety? Are you kidding?


To everyone else:

This is why I hate Star Trek. Not because of the shows or the writers or the movies or what not ... it's the fans. The arrogance, the entitlement, the selfish disregard for anything that isn't exactly what they want, and frankly, the complete ignorance of anything that doesn't jive with what they expect.
To be fair, that description could apply to society as a whole today, not just Star Trek fans. The younger folks in particular.

Oh, and on topic, I listened to the entire set over the first two weeks I had it, and enjoyed every second of it.

And yes, I know your post was not directed at me either.
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Old January 7 2013, 05:52 AM   #1017
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

This thread: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/po...ID=1&archive=0 and this thread from this point forward: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/po...0900&archive=0 are good places to learn a lot about this set from others who have listened.

There's some discussion here as well: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/26...ion-thread/390

Last edited by BeatleJWOL; January 7 2013 at 06:28 AM.
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Old January 7 2013, 04:51 PM   #1018
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Questions like this, though, are easy enough to answer. The original GNP album presented that cue and Silver Orbs separately. They were recorded separately so that made sense
A lot of changes in the box set are made editorially to match original on screen usage. Whether one prefers that approach is another story and an individual preference.
Yes, this is correct - at least for Track 20. The cues as presented on the GNP release can be synchronized with the episode in question if edited to match; therefore, these cues were recorded separately. The new set edits Track 20, but the edit is not the same as in the episode. It is close, but not entirely accurate. It is not, as you might say, note for note spot-on correct for lack of a better phrase. The edit in the episode is cleaner and less noticeable. Here on the set the cresendo (I think it is called) at the end of the first cue overlaps the music in the second cue. It does not seem to match "as-is" any copy of the episode that I have to check as the timing is off on the edit. As you mention, the cues are different in the pilot version and I conclude that the syndicated version was used as a template.

And now, I must get to work -- have fun guys!
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Old January 7 2013, 10:09 PM   #1019
JimZipCode
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Lights of Zetar used the original cues from Where No Man Has Gone Before, not library versions. So the ending you hear in that episode is how the cue was originally recorded.
Dalen Quaice wrote: View Post
BTW, the cue at the end The Lights of Zetar teaser is Track 27 of the GNP release. I was able to sync it to the soundtrack of the episode exactly. I thought it might be a re-recording, but it would not have synchronized had it been...
Well that all by itself is EXTREMELY interesting.

It's illegal, right? They were not supposed to use a first-season cue in the third season, without paying for a recording session to re-record it as a library cue. And "Force Field" is not listed as a third-season library cue. It's an odd choice too, to suddenly grab it in season 3. Was "Force Field" used elsewhere?

I wonder what the cue sheets would show for that entry in Zetar. Would they accurately reflect the improper cue? And if they didn't, if the cue sheet was fudged to disguise the impropriety, would that have interfered with Neil et al spotting the re-use of this cue? Zetar is merely a tracked episode, and not a prominent one: probably wouldn't be among the first 20 places a person would look for "original" cues. Is stuff like this a part of why Paramount/CBS does not want to release the cue sheets?


Dalen Quaice wrote: View Post
I'm checking Where No Man right now -- I'm pretty sure, but not positive yet, that the editing is slightly different in the episode than it is on the soundtrack. The cues seem to be joined, but the editing is not quite the same. I'm synchronizing them now; I should have more later and I will also try comparing the "pilot" version to the "syndicated version" - I have the LaserDisc also, but that will take me a bit to extract the audio.
If my understanding of the process is correct, you should find that the audio from the Laserdisc syncs perfectly to the track we have.


ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Monster Illusion and Monster Fight in The Cage was changed this same way. For this box set, certain cues were joined to reflect how they were presented in the episodes they were composed for. ... A lot of changes in the box set are made editorially to match original onscreen usage.
I'm surprised. I thought we were getting performance takes, rather than creations of the music editor, with the exception of things like the cello-sweetened Death of Miramanee. My assumption with "joined" cues was that they were performed that way, almost like when you see pics of the Warner Brothers orchestra performing with Bugs Bunny up on the overhead screen. The orchestra & conductor are self-editing or self-syncing the cues, so they line up with the action (except for library versions). That's what I thought was happening.

I'm surprised. It seems an odd choice, especially given the "as the composer intended" statements.


ssosmcin wrote: View Post
However, I think your idea is a good one. Maybe a new thread should be created for this rather than taking it onto a 25 page and counting thread. It might also be better if we hope to have Jeff or Neil answer questions. No wading through pages of the other comments.
25 pages?? In my browser this thread is pushing 70 pages!

Do you want to go ahead and start that other thread? You have a couple of good examples. Or maybe Warlord is the right choice: I dunno.
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Old January 7 2013, 10:21 PM   #1020
Christopher
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

JimZipCode wrote: View Post
It's illegal, right? They were not supposed to use a first-season cue in the third season, without paying for a recording session to re-record it as a library cue.
I don't know if "illegal" is the word. It's a matter of the studio's agreements with the musicians' union, so I'd figure it's more a breach of contract than a criminal act.

But it wouldn't have been the first time TOS made end runs around the rules to save money -- like getting Wah Chang to build the communicator and phaser props as "study models."


I'm surprised. I thought we were getting performance takes, rather than creations of the music editor, with the exception of things like the cello-sweetened Death of Miramanee. My assumption with "joined" cues was that they were performed that way, almost like when you see pics of the Warner Brothers orchestra performing with Bugs Bunny up on the overhead screen. The orchestra & conductor are self-editing or self-syncing the cues, so they line up with the action (except for library versions).
Well, a lot of the cues we hear onscreen in a movie or show are edited together from parts of two or more different takes of the same cue. If, say, the first half of one take sounded better but the second half of a different take sounded better, the music editor could've mixed and matched to get the best version of the cue overall. So even a single isolated cue doesn't necessarily represent a single unedited performance. If you look at the reference numbers after the cue titles, sometimes one cue will be listed by two numbers or a range of numbers.

And it's worth pointing out that blending separate cues on a track so that the end note of one cue fades into the first note of the next is far from an unprecedented practice in soundtrack albums. It's often done intentionally to create the impression of a "suite," a continuous piece of music. It's not what I would've preferred here, but it's hardly a shocking departure from soundtrack-album practice.
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