The STAR TREK III-Love & Appreciation Thread

[22 Stars]

BillJ wrote:

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I love the movie, but I laugh everytime I see the costume Chekov is wearing.

Happy Thanksgiving! Pilgrim fashion is NEVER out of style for long!

[jimbotron]

I'm happy to see a thread like this. Star Trek III is my favorite Trek film.

Great score, very good effects and new models (Excelsior, Grissom, Spacedock, BOP), two amazing sequences (stealing and destroying the Enterprise), and most important of all, a very personal story.

My only gripes are the "protomatter" stuff, and changing the Saavik character.

[A beaker full of death]

It was cool to see everyone on the bridge in their civvies, and you have to love Sulu man-handling the guards. But it was hurt by a short running time, horrible studio sets, and the piss-poor substitution of the creaming-in-her-pants Curtis for the cool Alley.

Worst of all, there's barely any Spock in the picture, so it simply felt unbalanced. There was no one against whom to contrast Kirk.

[trevanian]

22 Stars wrote:

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No, actually it is anything but tepid, sorry. And it is shot very well for a budget constrained film and a first time director not yet let loose with ultimate control. I think Nimoy's track record speaks for itself.

I guess I gotta go back on what I said above.

"Nimoy's track record" includes a film so bad it nearly went unreleased (it underwent such extreme editing that one of the movie's stars, the late Farrah Fawcett, was cut entirely), a very successful yet for me unwatchable remake of a French film, a well-intended family drama that probably should have debuted on Lifetime instead of being shown in theaters, and the two least watchable -- well, I'll be fair here, least REwatchable -- TOS films.

Oh yeah, and a TJ Hooker episode. Meyer's career includes a lot of crap too, but with TWOK he delivered a genuine VISION (like it or not) instead of just miring his film in Vulcan-centric lore. SFS has heart, I'll grant you that. It just squanders so much goodwill that it becomes infuriating as it goes on & on, especially when the show relies on nuttiness like beaming down to an unstable planet as an escape measure, which has to rank below how Matt Decker tried to save his crew.

The budget-constrained thing doesn't hold water either. It cost more than TWOK, yet has many VERY similar sequences, all of which play out in a much inferior fashion, due in large part to the lack of variety in camera angles and editing (you can't improve a picture with fancy cutting if there isn't anything fresh to cut TO.) Run the sneak attack scene from TWOK with the sound off ... it still works, very snappy. Run the BoP sneaking up on Ent scene from SFS silent ... you'll probably be asleep before the thing starts to decloak. SFS relies on the music like a crutch to make up for a lack of cinematic appeal, whereas the TWOK music just EMBELLISHES on what they had shot, which is as it should be.

Designwise, the film pretty much sabotages the whole Starfleet design ethic with that idiot mushroom dock and ultra-modern cafeteria. The Excelsior bridge looks like it could have been done with castoffs from the 2nd season of BUCK ROGERS on the back wall.

[Maurice]

trevanian wrote:

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I guess I gotta go back on what I said above.

"Nimoy's track record" includes a film so bad it nearly went unreleased (it underwent such extreme editing that one of the movie's stars, the late Farrah Fawcett, was cut entirely), a very successful yet for me unwatchable remake of a French film, a well-intended family drama that probably should have debuted on Lifetime instead of being shown in theaters, and the two least watchable -- well, I'll be fair here, least REwatchable -- TOS films.

Oh yeah, and a TJ Hooker episode. Meyer's career includes a lot of crap too, but with TWOK he delivered a genuine VISION (like it or not) instead of just miring his film in Vulcan-centric lore. SFS has heart, I'll grant you that. It just squanders so much goodwill that it becomes infuriating as it goes on & on, especially when the show relies on nuttiness like beaming down to an unstable planet as an escape measure, which has to rank below how Matt Decker tried to save his crew.

The budget-constrained thing doesn't hold water either. It cost more than TWOK, yet has many VERY similar sequences, all of which play out in a much inferior fashion, due in large part to the lack of variety in camera angles and editing (you can't improve a picture with fancy cutting if there isn't anything fresh to cut TO.) Run the sneak attack scene from TWOK with the sound off ... it still works, very snappy. Run the BoP sneaking up on Ent scene from SFS silent ... you'll probably be asleep before the thing starts to decloak. SFS relies on the music like a crutch to make up for a lack of cinematic appeal, whereas the TWOK music just EMBELLISHES on what they had shot, which is as it should be.

Designwise, the film pretty much sabotages the whole Starfleet design ethic with that idiot mushroom dock and ultra-modern cafeteria. The Excelsior bridge looks like it could have been done with castoffs from the 2nd season of BUCK ROGERS on the back wall.

I rarely do this, but...

THIS.

[Dale Sams]

[QUOTE=trevanian;7490653]

22 Stars wrote:

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No, actually it is anything but tepid, sorry. And it is shot very well for a budget constrained film and a first time director not yet let loose with ultimate control. I think Nimoy's track record speaks for itself.

Oh yeah, and a TJ Hooker episode. Meyer's career includes a lot of crap too, but with TWOK he delivered a genuine VISION (like it or not) instead of just miring his film in Vulcan-centric lore. .

I'm chiming in to say that "Time After Time" is fantastic.

[Dale Sams]

ssosmcin wrote:

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Yes, I've felt the same way: with TVH bringing in the "comedy at all costs" everything got goofy and watered down, as if they had to make up for the aging cast and their expanding waistlines with Krazy Komedy Kapers. As much as people harp on TFF for its comedy, TUC has as much ridiculous humor and off character beats.

Star Trek III was the last time the original cast movies were taken seriously.

It's fricking amazing and I nearly soiled myself when the complete score was released a few years ago.

I would make a 'rank the scores' thread, but how the heck do you rank TMP? It's so different from most of the others. ...and I'm afraid of the shellacking Generations would take, cause I love it.

[Amasov]

I've learned to appreciate the movie a lot in the last year or so. It's oddly placed between The Wrath of Khan and The Voyage Home, but it serves as the bridge for those two movies.

Hell, I even made this a few weeks ago.

[Dale Sams]

Nice. So Harrison is Maltz, long stranded on Vulcan come back to exact his vengence.

[Amasov]

Dale Sams wrote:

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Nice. So Harrison is Maltz, long stranded on Vulcan come back to exact his vengence.

Or Kruge, but you get the gist.

[AggieJohn]

This one was always a mixed bag. I would say that Kurge was one of the best villains on Star Trek, Christopher Lloyd is the man .

Now having said that, its really painful to watch the Enterprise destroyed and I did not like Curtis taking over for Alley. STIII ended what might have been from the end of STII. I get the general sense that they were going to start phasing in new cast members, slowly phasing out the old crew. But STIII obviously ended that as David was killed, Savvak was reduced to a shell of herself and the Enterprise was destroyed.

[sonak]

I really like TSFS, but a few things about it bother me. The whole "conflict with Starfleet" aspect of it just feels contrived. The admiral is irrationally rigid for no reason other than to set up conflict. Plus, Grissom was already THERE. Shouldn't Kirk just go to Morrow and just say "hey, can you tell J.T. to beam up, Spock? Ok, thanks."

[BillJ]

sonak wrote:

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I really like TSFS, but a few things about it bother me. The whole "conflict with Starfleet" aspect of it just feels contrived. The admiral is irrationally rigid for no reason other than to set up conflict.

Well, he did have orders from the Federation Council that only the science team had permission to go to Genesis.

[sonak]

BillJ wrote:

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Well, he did have orders from the Federation Council that only the science team had permission to go to Genesis.

right, but Spock's circumstances presented a unique case which should have allowed for exception. He was a famous and influential Starfleet officer whose dad was a major ambassador. Having the council still deny a simple trip to Genesis just seems like putting artificial obstacles there for the sake of plot. And I still don't know why they didn't just ask Esteban to pick him up while he was there.

[BillJ]

You know, I watched it the other day and something occurred to me. There is a line from Sarek that implies Vulcan isn't part of the Federation...

The Search for Spock wrote:

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SAREK: Spare me your human platitudes, Kirk. I have been to your government. I have seen the Genesis information, and your own report.

Wouldn't Kirk and Sarek's government be the same one?