Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

[JirinPanthosa]

Show me the poll that people voted Voyager the best series. Everybody I've ever talked to except maybe 10% of the people on this board cite either TOS, TNG or DS9 as their favorite. And the younger people I talk to who never watched Star Trek when it was airing tend to heavily favor DS9.

Seven was a good addition to the show, but Kes was also a bad subtraction. Like I said, she had the least sexy gimmick so she was the hardest to write for, and those writers had a lazy streak. They would have had to try harder to find good stories for Kes, certainly. But the stories they could have come up with if they made the effort were far more original than Seven's stories, because there weren't the obvious genre precedents for her that there were for Seven.

Yes, Voyager did always get good enough ratings to stay on the air. At the time a 3.0 was UPN's highest rated show. But it was also far more accessible than DS9 and it's where all the marketing resources went to and it was still consistently lower rated than DS9. And, I'm a fan of Voyager, but it seems every time the subject of Voyager comes up outside of this board it's in the context of me having to defend it.

[exodus]

teacake wrote:

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That's what I've been saying all along.

So now we must wait to see what your lynx quote containing the words "big political bosses" and "dumping" was really all about.

Seriously?
We haven't gotten a realistic depiction/POV yet, you honestly expect one now?

[Dream]

teya wrote:

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I haven't bashed Kes. Ever.

Why would anyone bash Kes? That's like kicking a puppy!

[teacake]

It's all been clear to me. I'm not asking for "realistic" as in, something exodus would agree with. I'm just playing with the specifics of the comparisons because that's where the poor lad has come undone. Possibly.

[Guy Gardener]

I believe Jabin gave her a black eye for dropping a tray of drinks?

[teacake]

Dream wrote:

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Why would anyone bash Kes? That's like kicking a puppy!

So what's Fury, rabies?

Banjo Caretaker: BRING ME MAH GUN SHE'S FOAMIN!!

[exodus]

JirinPanthosa wrote:

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Show me the poll that people voted Voyager the best series. Everybody I've ever talked to except maybe 10% of the people on this board cite either TOS, TNG or DS9 as their favorite. And the younger people I talk to who never watched Star Trek when it was airing tend to heavily favor DS9.

I never said best series, I say number 1 choice to see on Blu-ray.
here's your poll:
http://www.startrek.com/article/the-...lu-ray-next-is

Yes, Voyager did always get good enough ratings to stay on the air. At the time a 3.0 was UPN's highest rated show. But it was also far more accessible than DS9 and it's where all the marketing resources went to and it was still consistently lower rated than DS9. And, I'm a fan of Voyager, but it seems every time the subject of Voyager comes up outside of this board it's in the context of me having to defend it.

So what?
If say "Mork and Mindy" got lower ratings then "Lavern & Shirley" for arguments sake, does that make "Mork & Mindy" a shit show?
Having lower ratings than the spin off show before it doesn't equate into a bad show. If it gets cancelled due to low ratings it does. Use that argument next time you defend it and see what folks say. Also state that with all it had against it, Voy. still survived. That's speaks volumes.

[teacake]

exodus wrote:

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I never said best series, I say number 1 choice to see on Blu-ray.
here's your poll:
http://www.startrek.com/article/the-...lu-ray-next-is

Doesn't that just mean they think it looks bad?

[exodus]

teacake wrote:

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Doesn't that just mean they think it looks bad?

If that's the case, then they don't understand Blu-ray but I don't think the that's the case, especially with the tech geeks.
Transferring something that would looks bad to higher resolution doesn't improve it, it just brings out the visual flaws more.

teacake wrote:

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come undone.

That's a very sexy Duran Duran song

[Lynx]

And I thought I've seen everything when it comes to misinterpreting.

But hey, what I was surprised.

In an earlier post I stated my opinion that it's necessary to stand up and speak against what might considered as unjust and wrong.

teacake then commented that "BUT we all find different things wrong with the world. If you have enough contrasting wrongs speaking out you end up with war".

My reply to this was that if people keep their mouth shut and don't object to what's considered as unjust and wrong, it can lead to war anyway. Look at WWII in which I referred to what happened when the Western powers sold out Czechoslovakia to Hitler to get "peace in our time". One year later the war started.

And then, all of a sudden I'm accused of comparing the firing of Jennifer Lien with the Holocaust!

It takes a lot of imagination to come up with that since I didn't even mention the Holocaust in my post. But I'm not surprised when it comes to certain people who are trying to get a cheap shot at me.

exodus wrote:

Lynx isn't from or lives in the States.
This also isn't the first time he's done this.
He used to compare Berman to Hitler over firing Kes.
This is what teya is referring too.

If I remember it correctly, I was referring to dictatorial behavior in common in that post on that forum, something which was blown up out of proportion.

Not to mention that there were a lot of really nasty things going on at that other forum back then. But certain guardians of morality didn't protest against that, instead they took part in it and supported the real bad guys.

So let's avoid that can of worms and go back to topic instead.

teacake wrote:

So what's Fury, rabies?

Worse than that!

[teacake]

I remember being somewhat the first time I saw Fury.. one of those wtf is going on moments because the character had been treated as something all precious and almost delicate (the puppy comparison) a lot of the time. And suddenly they were blowing her up.

[R. Star]

teacake wrote:

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I remember being somewhat the first time I saw Fury.. one of those wtf is going on moments because the character had been treated as something all precious and almost delicate (the puppy comparison) a lot of the time. And suddenly they were blowing her up.

I'd be angry and want to blow them all up too if I was cast aside like that.

[Guy Gardener]

Nevil frakking Chamberlain!

Peace in our time my asymmetrical ass.

The one thing about Fury that few people fail to consider is that not only did Kes Not leave, but she made it all the way to Earth as cargo in her coffin. It's like they never fired Jennifer at all. In fact since Kes was part of every episode then between series 4 and seven Jennifer could conceivably sue Berman for back pay since they were using her virtual likeness without remuneration.

Isn't that just the most sweetest most adorable consideration?

(Starfleet is probably going to eventually use her remains to create a biological stardrive. I have no idea why Janeway didn't. 50 more years in space waddling along or defile the corpse of a crazy old lady who tried to kill her?)