Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces?

Guy Gardener · January 3 2013, 09:21 AM

Transporter spilt into two.

Deadish.

The Klingon half dies in a brawl?

The human half is going to die, but they shoot her up with Klingon corpse juice via the transporter, and the Engineer seems to be back to normal.

Even though the book keeping accounts this woman to be a completely different new transporter clone.

She's a transporter clone of half a transporter clone of the original.

The final product seems to be the half dead granddaughter of the original B'Elanna by some regards, or just her sister too arrogant to accept that she's not who every memory and fibre insists that she verily is.

Tom Riker.

Tuvix.

Kirk in "The Enemy within".

Her eyebrows got a lot smaller after this episode did you notice? Was she plucking, or was there significantly less active Klingon in her makeup after the recombination?

"If Groucho Marx and Brooke Shields had a baby, she would have your eyebrows."

(The Princess Diaries.)

Gov Kodos · January 3 2013, 09:25 AM

She got better, but, maybe, she is a witch? That should be a poll option. Does anyone have a duck handy?

teacake · January 3 2013, 09:51 AM

People will be getting Philosophy doctorates in the future writing theses on self and the transporter.

What if they could duplicate the duplicating accidents? I'm sure there are rogue labs practicing this techno voodoo on animals and unwanted humanoids they buy from Orion slavers. They're dividing people into parts, blending the parts, making new people.. after about a ten thousand tons of TMP style screaming mush disasters someone is going to figure it out. How to blend, how to separate. How to make a profit from this technique. Quicker than cloning.

Guy Gardener · January 3 2013, 10:52 AM

B'Elanna didn't have enough mass to make two people.

They probably included Ninety pounds of generic stem cells into the mix, harvested from dozens of babies from disparate species to paste the cracks together.

teacake · January 3 2013, 02:07 PM

Dividing people would only bring in profit if you were selling them to humanoid eaters. In which case you might as well divide cows, less illegal. You won't get any great super soldiers because one divided person is always a weakling and the other a psycho with an expiry date.

The real beauty would be in the blending. You blend a Klingon and a Nausicaan and you stick it in stasis, only waking it up when you were ready to point it in the direction of who did this terrible thing to it.. or so you say.

JirinPanthosa · January 4 2013, 01:31 AM

Along the same lines you can philosophically argue that every time a transporter is used one person is killed and another identical person is born.

I think the implication in that particular episode is that the human half was the real B'elana and the klingon DNA was somehow extracted and manifested as a new person.

Guy Gardener · January 4 2013, 02:32 AM

They both had the same electrochemical memories and drives for the first few seconds, until radically and violently different chemicals in their disparate alien bodies started to attack the default setting on the B'Elanna personality.

Carcazoid · January 4 2013, 02:59 AM

JirinPanthosa wrote:

Along the same lines you can philosophically argue that every time a transporter is used one person is killed and another identical person is born.

Wasn't Christian Bale in a flick with that premise?

Guy Gardener · January 4 2013, 03:31 AM

That wasn't a movie.

That's how he dates.

JirinPanthosa · January 4 2013, 03:57 AM

Also, isn't it a little weird that the Vidian phage was cured in a throwaway line in Think Tank?

Have any of the novels taken place in the DQ after Voyager left? That could probably make a good novel. Vidians rebuilding their society, trying to make amends with the galaxy by offering medical technology while everybody wants to kill them out of revenge. A generation of younger Vidians trying to dissociate themselves from their parents' crimes. A conflict between Vidian nationalists who justify their crimes by necessity and Vidians who want to rejoin the galaxy and start a new DQ Federation.

I think there's at least a miniseries worth of material there.

teacake · January 4 2013, 03:59 AM

And then you'd have the goth Vidiian cultists who missed the old days so traded body parts with each other.

JirinPanthosa · January 4 2013, 04:03 AM

That's it, we start a Kickstarter project and pay Ron Moore to write it.

Guy Gardener · January 4 2013, 05:34 AM

It always comes back to Shattered.

Chakotay is talking about how that "Angry young woman" is going to grow up to be a trusted and valued member of Kathryn's crew... After she is murdered and replaced with a slapdash clone.

Kadratis · January 6 2013, 08:40 PM

I agree that she "died," but I think the ordeal changed B'Elanna for the better.

Bry_Sinclair · January 6 2013, 10:57 PM

She is not the same woman in that she learned much about herself, which changed her.

View Poll Results: Is she the same woman?
She might as well be the same woman.	2	11.76%
She is the same woman.	6	35.29%
She is not the same woman.	7	41.18%
It doesn't matter who this woman really is.	2	11.76%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

January 3 2013, 09:21 AM	#1
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? Transporter spilt into two. Deadish. The Klingon half dies in a brawl? The human half is going to die, but they shoot her up with Klingon corpse juice via the transporter, and the Engineer seems to be back to normal. Even though the book keeping accounts this woman to be a completely different new transporter clone. She's a transporter clone of half a transporter clone of the original. The final product seems to be the half dead granddaughter of the original B'Elanna by some regards, or just her sister too arrogant to accept that she's not who every memory and fibre insists that she verily is. Tom Riker. Tuvix. Kirk in "The Enemy within". Her eyebrows got a lot smaller after this episode did you notice? Was she plucking, or was there significantly less active Klingon in her makeup after the recombination? "If Groucho Marx and Brooke Shields had a baby, she would have your eyebrows." (The Princess Diaries.) __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

January 3 2013, 09:25 AM	#2
Gov Kodos Vice Admiral Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? She got better, but, maybe, she is a witch? That should be a poll option. Does anyone have a duck handy? __________________ “Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” Rumi

January 3 2013, 09:51 AM	#3
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? People will be getting Philosophy doctorates in the future writing theses on self and the transporter. What if they could duplicate the duplicating accidents? I'm sure there are rogue labs practicing this techno voodoo on animals and unwanted humanoids they buy from Orion slavers. They're dividing people into parts, blending the parts, making new people.. after about a ten thousand tons of TMP style screaming mush disasters someone is going to figure it out. How to blend, how to separate. How to make a profit from this technique. Quicker than cloning. __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

January 3 2013, 10:52 AM	#4
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? B'Elanna didn't have enough mass to make two people. They probably included Ninety pounds of generic stem cells into the mix, harvested from dozens of babies from disparate species to paste the cracks together. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

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January 3 2013, 02:07 PM	#5
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? Dividing people would only bring in profit if you were selling them to humanoid eaters. In which case you might as well divide cows, less illegal. You won't get any great super soldiers because one divided person is always a weakling and the other a psycho with an expiry date. The real beauty would be in the blending. You blend a Klingon and a Nausicaan and you stick it in stasis, only waking it up when you were ready to point it in the direction of who did this terrible thing to it.. or so you say. __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

January 4 2013, 01:31 AM	#6
JirinPanthosa Captain	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? Along the same lines you can philosophically argue that every time a transporter is used one person is killed and another identical person is born. I think the implication in that particular episode is that the human half was the real B'elana and the klingon DNA was somehow extracted and manifested as a new person.

January 4 2013, 02:32 AM	#7
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? They both had the same electrochemical memories and drives for the first few seconds, until radically and violently different chemicals in their disparate alien bodies started to attack the default setting on the B'Elanna personality. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

January 4 2013, 03:31 AM	#9
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? That wasn't a movie. That's how he dates. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

January 4 2013, 03:57 AM	#10
JirinPanthosa Captain	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? Also, isn't it a little weird that the Vidian phage was cured in a throwaway line in Think Tank? Have any of the novels taken place in the DQ after Voyager left? That could probably make a good novel. Vidians rebuilding their society, trying to make amends with the galaxy by offering medical technology while everybody wants to kill them out of revenge. A generation of younger Vidians trying to dissociate themselves from their parents' crimes. A conflict between Vidian nationalists who justify their crimes by necessity and Vidians who want to rejoin the galaxy and start a new DQ Federation. I think there's at least a miniseries worth of material there.

January 4 2013, 03:59 AM	#11
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? And then you'd have the goth Vidiian cultists who missed the old days so traded body parts with each other. __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

January 4 2013, 04:03 AM	#12
JirinPanthosa Captain	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? That's it, we start a Kickstarter project and pay Ron Moore to write it.

January 4 2013, 05:34 AM	#13
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? It always comes back to Shattered. Chakotay is talking about how that "Angry young woman" is going to grow up to be a trusted and valued member of Kathryn's crew... After she is murdered and replaced with a slapdash clone. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

January 6 2013, 08:40 PM	#14
Kadratis Fleet Captain Location: Dayton, OH	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? I agree that she "died," but I think the ordeal changed B'Elanna for the better. __________________ "You violated the laws of nature, and Mother Nature is a bitch."

January 6 2013, 10:57 PM	#15
Bry_Sinclair Commodore Location: Along the border of Talarian space	Re: Did B'Elanna die forever in Faces? She is not the same woman in that she learned much about herself, which changed her. __________________ Avatar: Captain Hilgrat Ja-Inrosh (deceased), Commanding Officer, U.S.S. Silverfin NCC-4470, Border Service Third Cutter Squadron Manip by: FltCpt. Bossco (STPMA)