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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old December 29 2012, 06:13 PM   #1861
NewHorizon
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

There is a difference between the 'picture being clearer' than the old VHS versions and the 'compositions' being reassembled as well as the originals.

From what we've seen, the image is obviously clearer, that's not the issue. The issue is the amateurish, or at the very least, sloppy work on the VFX.

I can't even say it's good. HTV pushed it through...and that's about it.

The approach they took with the VFX is mind numbing. Scrub the grain out so that the squeaky clean CGI FX fits in, rather than add some grain to the CGI FX to fit the existing film.
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Old December 29 2012, 06:58 PM   #1862
davejames
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Beta-Z wrote: View Post
Maybe it was, because we didn't see so many details back then. But that has to be taken into consideration if you want to compare fairly.
I've been watching the VHS-UK (Pal-> better Picture than US-NTSC) versions on a small CRT-TV and "Q who" looked just amazing, especially that scene.
Compared to what I see now on the big screen from Blu-ray (I mean now especially this above mentioned shot) I really had it much better in mind, because back then it was "Oh, wow, look at that" - now it's just "Oh nooo.. what did they do??"
Well yeah, of course it looked good on the old picture tube TVs. That's what VHS was made for. We didn't care as much about detail and definition back then, and were perfectly happy if we could just get a clear picture without any static on it! Lol

As for the new CG painting, I agree it looks overly blurred in the still shot, but in motion I thought it looked pretty damn good, and felt just as epic as it was supposed to.

To me the bigger issue are some of the stock Enterprise shots throughout the REST of the episode, where the ship is overly bright and looks like a cutout in space.
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Old December 30 2012, 03:11 PM   #1863
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

If I understand it right, the poster of this YT video claims, he has redone all visual effect shots of TNG's "The Child" with computer renderings:

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Old December 30 2012, 06:03 PM   #1864
M
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

^ Not to trash this guy's work (which looks fine, IMO), but the original, physical effects look a million times better. Even after some of HTV's work for Season Two doens't look as good as what we got for the first season, I'm still glad they're reassembling the original effects footage rather than mimicking it with the computer.
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Old December 30 2012, 06:09 PM   #1865
NewHorizon
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I believe I watched a video of his that demonstrates how he does the work. If it was his video, he uses a motion tracking program to match the movements of the original footage. Wonder if he has any side by side shots from this.
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Old December 30 2012, 06:56 PM   #1866
davejames
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Shame he went through all that trouble just to recreate the exact same shots. I'd love to see someone create some shots of the Ent-D that we haven't seen before, and plug them into an episode.
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Old December 30 2012, 08:00 PM   #1867
NewHorizon
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I really don't think it's a shame. He wanted to faithfully recreate the scenes in CGI. I would actually love to see a fan project that faithfully recreated season 2 with CGI, and do it well enough that we could splice them into the bluray season 2 episodes and forget HTV ever happened.
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Old December 30 2012, 08:57 PM   #1868
Jefferies
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

NewHorizon wrote: View Post
I really don't think it's a shame. He wanted to faithfully recreate the scenes in CGI. I would actually love to see a fan project that faithfully recreated season 2 with CGI, and do it well enough that we could splice them into the bluray season 2 episodes and forget HTV ever happened.
That would only get rid of half of the problem. You are forgetting all those excessively DNRed live action sequences before FX scenes. They themselves are at least as jarring as the poor effects work from HTV.

Also, I agree with what others have said that CGI could not really live up to the model work when it is assembled properly with correct lighting, grain etc.
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Old December 31 2012, 12:33 AM   #1869
NewHorizon
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

[QUOTE=Jefferies;7465072]
NewHorizon wrote: View Post
That would only get rid of half of the problem. You are forgetting all those excessively DNRed live action sequences before FX scenes. They themselves are at least as jarring as the poor effects work from HTV.
I haven't forgotten the excessively DNRed live action scenes, there just isn't much that can be done to save them...well, nothing beyond adding a layer of grain...and perhaps splicing in new images on the screens if possible.

As for CGI, I prefer that CBS use the original elements as they have chosen to do, but in the case of Season 2...fan made CGI may be the only solution. So if it can faithfully reproduce the original shots at CBS-D quality, I would accept that over what HTV slapped together.
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Old December 31 2012, 04:53 AM   #1870
tomswift2002
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I just watched "The Child" today and a lot of the composites looked like they had been composited in SD and the up converted before being put on the Blu-Ray. And that shot of the Enterprise over he planet looked half-complete (it's an insert shot where the camera goes over the top of the saucer with the planet directly below the D).

But I was also surprised at how many shots appeared to have been shot with the gain on the camera turned way up, or else for some shots the camera person was using a low-quality film with big grain.
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Old January 2 2013, 01:28 AM   #1871
Mr Pointy Ears
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Something i notice about the HD blu ray, is that the episodes are a lot more darker than the standed versions are.
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Old January 3 2013, 05:51 AM   #1872
trekker670
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Wow, who let the shot of Data beaming out at the end of "Pen Pals" through? I've personally done better chromakeying with a handheld camera and some consumer grade software. Data is out of focus and colored incorrectly, the matte is poorly done and fuzzy, and it just looks completely terrible...
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Old January 3 2013, 09:10 AM   #1873
Tosk
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Yeah, I thought that was a shocker too. Season 1 was awesome in that all the bluescreen stuff was composited at the best level that it can be done today. That Pen Pals shot looks like someone wanted to emulate the very average '80s standard of bluescreening.
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Old January 3 2013, 11:38 AM   #1874
picard_2305
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I got season 2 on blu ray for Christmas and I think it is a terrific set. Yes, I will admit the remastered work done by HTV is not as good as CBD Digital's work for season 1 but I think there is some amazing work done here and still looks a lot better than the original SD versions of the episodes. Watched Q Who yesterday and I thought it looked great, the new matte painting works well for me and I can see why they changed it as the orignal had brush strokes which showed up on HD and it is great seeing the episodes without the blur that was created when the film was transferred to video tape.

The thing is are what are people doing with their DVD sets. I loaned season 1 to a friend and said she can hold onto it because after seeing season 1 on blu I don't think I can go back to DVD, the picture on SD of season 1 had a very pinkish purplish hue and it is great to see the episodes with the right colours now. It is hard to go back to the DVDs when you realise how much the SD transfers had wrong colour correction. And it is cool that all the original features have been ported over along with the new stuff.
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Old January 3 2013, 03:24 PM   #1875
Savage Dragon
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I have to say that one of the biggest standouts for me has also been the brilliant colour correction on the Blu-Rays.

I have tried several times over the years to re-watch TNG and every time I just couldn't get past the poor picture quality. The poor colour was definitely a big part of the reason I couldn't re-watch TNG.
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