Does It Get Better???

[JirinPanthosa]

Real people change over time but not in the direction you're allowed to change on TV.

Real people start with one group of idiosyncracies, strengths and weaknesses, and then later they have a totally different group of idiosyncracies, strengths and weaknesses.

TV characters start with one group of idiosyncracies and weaknesses then gradually blunt them over time without adding new ones. Long TV series' character development is just a slow gravity of every character's personality quirks toward the center, and no Star Trek is any exception.

I liked TNG and Voyager. TNG has a better group of actors and better writing, but Voy has a good cast with good chemistry and at least half the episodes are well written. I definitely end up coming back to TNG and DS9 more often than Voyager, but that's like comparing a good beer to a great one. Voyager is Sam Adams Boston Lager and TNG and DS9 are the fancy craft beers that come corked.

[teacake]

JirinPanthosa wrote:

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TV characters start with one group of idiosyncracies and weaknesses then gradually blunt them over time without adding new ones. Long TV series' character development is just a slow gravity of every character's personality quirks toward the center, and no Star Trek is any exception.

Except Gul Dukat.

[JirinPanthosa]

And personally I think I would rather hang out with TNG characters than Voyager characters.

Riker knows where the party's at, Geordi or Wesley could carry a pretty damn good science conversation, and if you want to have fun on the holodeck? Barclay's your man.

Now, if you want to really have fun, hang out with the DS9 crew.

The Voyager crew may be more personable but I can't think of anything we'd talk about. Maybe you could have some fun with Paris fanboying out over 20th century pop culture. But I get the sense he'd be a little controlling over the conversation.

[teacake]

Forget about the ships, which crew would you rather go to Risa with?

We saw what happened when Worf went to Risa and it wasn't pretty.

[Guy Gardener]

The final credits saved you from some very Klingon skinny dipping.

[AdmiralScreed]

That's a toughie............hmmm............Risa........... ......TNG or VOY..............I'd probably go with TNG, but I'd be happy to take Belanna with.......

[R. Star]

I dunno. Voyager's characters did seem cliche in a lot of ways.

Janeway was the self-parody in a lot of ways. Completely inconsistent, she'll be preachy about her ethics one week and perfectly willing to break them the next week.

Chakotay was well... dull. A few Indian cliches are all that define him. I can think of only two episodes he was really interesting in. The pilot(where I thought I was going to love this guy at the time) and Scorpion(where species 8472 briefly provides him with a functional pair of cajones).

The EMH was easily my favorite character, and he carried a LOT of episodes by himself, but he can't do it all.

Paris, well... let's see, he's a pilot, a field medic, commando, history expert, can design spaceships all by himself, oh and is a sci-fi fan.... can we say Mary Sue? Funny how all the Starfleet people in the pilot didn't want him around. Oh and they all died... well Chakotay didn't, but he lost his testicles in that episode.

Torres... well, her character traits include yelling at people, smashing people, fixing things and breaking them. She's angry all the time, but never over anything solid.

Kim... yeah, he's boring. Even his crew members thought that.

Kes... interesting premise, but poor execution. It might have been interesting seeing her explore her mental abilities, but the writers could never figure out what to do with her. So she got ditched.

Neelix... what a jerk. He forces himself into every situation, has to be the center of attention, gets jealous to the point of stalking, and is generally annoying. Frankly I have no idea why Janeway even trusted him after he lied to them and got them captured in the pilot.

Seven... well she was interesting. She had a perfectly calibrated pair of Borg spheres and that outfit was perfec--- oh her personality. She was a jerk. A hot jerk, but a jerk. It was amusing for awhile, but then got old. Then in season 7 they just literally hit a button and say. "You're human now! You have emotions!" and she falls for Chuckles... yeah.

[teacake]

TNG and VOY are left in the dust in the competition to accompany teacake to Risa. The winner of an all expense paid week long resort stay in my presence goes to DS9. My 7 nights of luxurious hedonism will be spent with these lucky people!

Julian Bashir: Just enough wide eyed wonderment left in the man to really enjoy the sparkle of the place, plus he does love to kick back and relax. I'd be charmed to end up trapped in conversation with him.

Ezri Dax: She's adventurous without being a lunatic but cute enough to draw a crowd of (presumably) interesting people. She's that bubbly friend I have to bring along to drag me out of my observer status.

Quark: So far on this trip we're all dorks and we need Quark to slip his latinum and lobes around so we get to do that extra special cool stuff we would be too dorky to find ourselves. Also I've always had some hots for Quark and he's a nice diversion when Julian gets too angsty.

Mr. Homm: For fetching stuff. And hanging our clothes on when we go swimming.

Odo is BANNED from coming.

[exodus]

Janeway was the self-parody in a lot of ways. Completely inconsistent, she'll be preachy about her ethics one week and perfectly willing to break them the next week.

I always though that was a woman's prerogative?
I always found that made Janeway the most human.
People in general are inconsistent, especially when faced with new perspective and experiences. Me personal saw every Capt. had to face a trial-Picard with Q, Sisko with the Prophets. Too me Janeway's was too see if she could stick to her morals in an immoral DQ. I think if we wee in her shoes, we probably couldn't always stick to our morals either. I think that's find her to be like Kirk.

Neelix... what a jerk. He forces himself into every situation, has to be the center of attention, gets jealous to the point of stalking, and is generally annoying. Frankly I have no idea why Janeway even trusted him after he lied to them and got them captured in the pilot.

Sounds like a die hard sci-fi fan too me.
Except Neelix is a party animal. Get it-Hahaha!

[JirinPanthosa]

R. Star wrote:

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Janeway was the self-parody in a lot of ways. Completely inconsistent, she'll be preachy about her ethics one week and perfectly willing to break them the next week.

The way you describe her, she's the most realistic character in Trek history.

[AdmiralScreed]

JirinPanthosa wrote:

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The way you describe her, she's the most realistic character in Trek history.

[tighr]

teacake wrote:

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What's your favorite episode?

Season 6's Blink of an Eye.

I thought the episode was very well done. We get to watch a civilization grow up and find its place in the galaxy. I don't want to spoil it for Screed, but he should queue it up and watch it. I don't think there is anything in the episode continuity-wise that prevents him from watching it out of order.

[Dale Sams]

R. Star wrote:

---

I dunno. Voyager's characters did seem cliche in a lot of ways.

Janeway was the self-parody in a lot of ways. Completely inconsistent, she'll be preachy about her ethics one week and perfectly willing to break them the next week.

Chakotay was well... dull. A few Indian cliches are all that define him. I can think of only two episodes he was really interesting in. The pilot(where I thought I was going to love this guy at the time) and Scorpion(where species 8472 briefly provides him with a functional pair of cajones).

The EMH was easily my favorite character, and he carried a LOT of episodes by himself, but he can't do it all.

Paris, well... let's see, he's a pilot, a field medic, commando, history expert, can design spaceships all by himself, oh and is a sci-fi fan.... can we say Mary Sue? Funny how all the Starfleet people in the pilot didn't want him around. Oh and they all died... well Chakotay didn't, but he lost his testicles in that episode.

Torres... well, her character traits include yelling at people, smashing people, fixing things and breaking them. She's angry all the time, but never over anything solid.

Kim... yeah, he's boring. Even his crew members thought that.

Kes... interesting premise, but poor execution. It might have been interesting seeing her explore her mental abilities, but the writers could never figure out what to do with her. So she got ditched.

Neelix... what a jerk. He forces himself into every situation, has to be the center of attention, gets jealous to the point of stalking, and is generally annoying. Frankly I have no idea why Janeway even trusted him after he lied to them and got them captured in the pilot.

Seven... well she was interesting. She had a perfectly calibrated pair of Borg spheres and that outfit was perfec--- oh her personality. She was a jerk. A hot jerk, but a jerk. It was amusing for awhile, but then got old. Then in season 7 they just literally hit a button and say. "You're human now! You have emotions!" and she falls for Chuckles... yeah.

I always thought Paris was the guy who sees through the fourth wall. Or..Us.

"Well, let's just delete the evil hologram and let my wife die"

"That's it. No more Captain Proton."

"Well, it's just you, me and the rocks, Tuvok."

[teacake]

tighr wrote:

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Season 6's Blink of an Eye.

I thought the episode was very well done. We get to watch a civilization grow up and find its place in the galaxy. I don't want to spoil it for Screed, but he should queue it up and watch it. I don't think there is anything in the episode continuity-wise that prevents him from watching it out of order.

Fantastic episode.. poignant AND nicely sci fi.

[Guy Gardener]

There was a Fantastic Four back up shortstory in the rear end one month once upon a time where we see the rise and fall of a subatomic alien empire, which was quite interesting and after a conclusive war, Reed Richards says from the other end of a relatively massive microscope "Well that was faster than yesterday, I wonder how long it will take them tomorrow?"