Farscape or Babylon 5?

[Jan]

tomswift2002 wrote:

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JMS even wrote about 60% of "Crusade", and I believe most of the movies were written by JMS.

He wrote all of the TV movies. Of the produced and aired Crusade epiesodes, JMS wrote 10 of the 13. Two more JMS scripts were completed but not produced. Fiona Avery wrote two of the three produced scripts by other writers with Peter David writing the third. There were three scripts assigned to other writers but production was halted before most of them were finished. A spec script written by Peter Woodward would have been made in the second season.

For those interested in the unproduced scripts, you might want to check out the 'Crusade: Other Voices' books which are still available here. Volume 1 features the Peter Woodward script and Volume 2 has early drafts of the Avery scripts as well as a draft of one of the assigned scripts by Richard Mueller. (Full disclosure: I'm part of the team that puts out these books but I don't have any financial stake in them. I just think that the history is important) Eventually, the two unproduced JMS scripts will be published in the rest of the 'Crusade: What the Hell Happened' books.

Jan

[JoeD80]

Jan wrote:

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Pretty much. The only other writing staff that there'd been at all was Larry DiTillio, the story editor (who also wrote 7 episodes) for the first two seasons. Once it was cleared with the studio that JMS would be writing all of season 3, he was released.

Harlan Ellison was there too for all five seasons as the "conceptual consultant." From what I gather from both Joe and Harlan's interviews here and there, they would meet all the time to discuss stuff, although Joe did all the writing.

[Nerys Myk]

Jan wrote:

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Pretty much. The only other writing staff that there'd been at all was Larry DiTillio, the story editor (who also wrote 7 episodes) for the first two seasons. Once it was cleared with the studio that JMS would be writing all of season 3, he was released.

The breakdown of JMS-written episodes was
S1 - 12
S2 - 15
S3 - 22
S4 - 22
S5 - 21

Jan

To bad, JMS really needed someone to polish his dialog. Some of it really makes my ears bleed.

[ATimson]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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To bad, JMS really needed someone to polish his dialog. Some of it really makes my ears bleed.

I don't think that happened even during S1/S2.

[Nerys Myk]

ATimson wrote:

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I don't think that happened even during S1/S2.

That I didn't find the dialog to be well written?

[ATimson]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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That I didn't find the dialog to be well written?

That someone was rewriting his dialogue. (That is, I don't think S3-S5 represented a change in the workflow on JMS scripts - there were just more of them.)

[kirk55555]

Babylon 5 season 2 arrived today, and I watched the first two episodes.

Points of Departure - This was a very good episode. The first thing I noticed is that the CGI looks better this season. The stuff in the first season didn't really bother me, but its interesting to see it evolve.One thing I noticed immediately is that everything seemed determined to totally ruin Delenn's post cacoon appearance. She's on the DVD cover and menu, so I was already spoiled before I even started the DVD, but that wasn't all. The opening actually shows her, so even if you were just watching this on TV in the ninties when it first came out, you would have been spoiled about what she looks like post cacoon. That seems like a stupid decision. I get why she's on the DVD cover/menu, she's a main character and I doubt they cared about spoiling that for a show that came out years ago, but the opening thing seems pretty lame. The end of the last episode of season 1 and all of this episode try to make you want to know what will come out of the cacoon. Even if you pretty much knew that it wouldn't be a monster or something, completely removing any surprise just makes all of the mystery in this episode seem pointless, since I already know what she will look like, even though it doesn't get officially revealed until the next episode.

Still, it didn't ruin the story or anything. The episode was good. The new Captain seems interesting. The thing about Minbari souls in human bodies is interesting, I bet it will come up again.The prophecy about the enemy also sounds important. This episode definatel;y got me excited for this season.

Revelations - I'm glad Londo and G'Kar are back, after not being in episode one. It was interesting to learn more about Sheridan, even if his sister seemed like just a way to deliever his backstory. The live draining/healing machine makes a second appearance, I figured it would return. I wonder if it was introduced so that it could be brought back later. Delenn emerging from the cacoon was cool, but like I said above, it was already spoiled by the DVD and the shows opening theme what she would look like, so the weird skin thing didn't fool me at all. I really hope the new president isn't part of this weird conspiracy. The earth politics stuff, while not bad, is usually the least interesting stuff. The Psi Corps connection to the assassination is intriguing. even if it turns out to not be true, I'm sure they're up to something shady. This new enemy seems like it will be big. I'm pretty sure they're connected to the guy helping Londo out, it will be interesting to see what happens.

Overall, this season has started out well. I don't know if Sheridan will be better than Sinclair, but he seems like a good character. Delenns new condition is interesting, and I really want to know what is going on with this mysterious new enemy.

[JoeD80]

It's pretty much the point of having your own show that no one re-writes you.

Some of us rather enjoy jms dialogue.

And as I said, Harlan was there.

[JoeD80]

kirk55555 wrote:

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The opening actually shows her, so even if you were just watching this on TV in the ninties when it first came out, you would have been spoiled about what she looks like post cacoon.

Actually that only became a problem with the DVD and widescreen versions. In the original run, the credits originally showed her as Minbari and then changed to her new appearance on episode three.

[sorry for the double post]

[kirk55555]

I didn't really think about them changing the opening with later releases, but it makes a lot of sense. I was actually wondering why they hadn't just had a different beginning for the first two episodes, and finding out that they did is cool, even if I wish they had put it on the DVD, just to see (even if the cover already spoils it).

[Jan]

kirk55555 wrote:

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I didn't really think about them changing the opening with later releases, but it makes a lot of sense. I was actually wondering why they hadn't just had a different beginning for the first two episodes, and finding out that they did is cool, even if I wish they had put it on the DVD, just to see (even if the cover already spoils it).

B5 did their title sequence in house so they could change them when they wanted such as when a rank changed or of course, when Delenn's change was revealed.

As for the dialog, there's two bits to note. First, and IMO the cause of many instances of dialogue issues was that with only a couple of exceptions, B5 didn't use 'Preveously on Babylon 5 introductions so JMS tried to get what was needed into dialogue. Also, he made the choice to make the style of talk on the show more formal and sometimes it comes over as stiff.

But it's one of the most quotable shows (if not THE most quotable) I've ever watched.

Jan

[Nerys Myk]

ATimson wrote:

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That someone was rewriting his dialogue. (That is, I don't think S3-S5 represented a change in the workflow on JMS scripts - there were just more of them.)

I think someone should rewrite his dialog, not that someone did. In the hands of people like Andreas Katsulas or Peter Jurasik, even the phone book can sound like Shakespeare, but in the hands of light weights like Bruce Boxleitner or Claudia Christian, the flaws become more apparent.

[kirk55555]

The Gemoetry of Shadows - This was a decent episode. Sheridan's orange obsession is weird. The fact that they keep reminding the audience is making me think that the upcoming enemy that everyone is talking about are related to the oranges somehow. Maybe they're walking, talking oranges (thats a joke, of course, I don't think the oranges are anything but a weirdly focused on thing that Sheridan likes that the show seems to have a weird fascination with). The techno-mages were an interesting concept. The one thing in this episode that was kind of lame was Ivanova trying to get the green and purple guys to get along. One thing it showed is that those communicators need a panic button, something you can press just once to send out a distress signal, instead of actually having to just call normally for help, giving people time to remove the device. Still, it was funny how she solved the problem, by accidentally becoming green leader. Londo's parts were very good, as always. It was funny seeing what happened to him, and the mages words to him at the end were ominous. Overall, a good episode with a few flaws.

[Sindatur]

kirk55555 wrote:

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The Gemoetry of Shadows - This was a decent episode. Sheridan's orange obsession is weird. The fact that they keep reminding the audience is making me think that the upcoming enemy that everyone is talking about are related to the oranges somehow. Maybe they're walking, talking oranges (thats a joke, of course, I don't think the oranges are anything but a weirdly focused on thing that Sheridan likes that the show seems to have a weird fascination with). The techno-mages were an interesting concept. The one thing in this episode that was kind of lame was Ivanova trying to get the green and purple guys to get along. One thing it showed is that those communicators need a panic button, something you can press just once to send out a distress signal, instead of actually having to just call normally for help, giving people time to remove the device. Still, it was funny how she solved the problem, by accidentally becoming green leader. Londo's parts were very good, as always. It was funny seeing what happened to him, and the mages words to him at the end were ominous. Overall, a good episode with a few flaws.

I refuse to comment on the relationship of Oranges to the enemy you are waiting to see

You can't read them until after you finish the Series, but, there is a Trilogy of Books about the Technomages, that are very good, and are blessed by JMS as Canon.

The Technomage Trilogy
All are considered canon[18]: written by Jeanne Cavelos.

1. Babylon 5: The Passing of the Techno-Mages - Casting Shadows (2001, ISBN 0-345-42721-1)
2. Babylon 5: The Passing of the Techno-Mages - Summoning Light (2001, ISBN 0-345-42722-X)
3. Babylon 5: The Passing of the Techno-Mages - Invoking Darkness (2001, ISBN 0-345-43833-7)

[flavaflav]

^^^^^ What Sindatur said. Mr Kirk, when you are done with the series you really should check out the Technomage novels. Actually, check out all the JMS cannonized novels.... The Psi Core, Technomage, and Centauri Prime trilogies. Damn. Good. Shit...