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Old January 2 2013, 01:01 PM   #136
Guy Gardener
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Re: How many reset buttons?

Scifi producers are callused. they don't dance for the fanboys. They make greater and more gaudy discontinuity to express how much they really want us to fuck ourselves.

There is no other possible human reaction.
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Old January 2 2013, 06:39 PM   #137
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Re: How many reset buttons?

The real mistake was saying stuff like "We can't replace the torpedoes" or "We can't fix some systems".
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Old January 3 2013, 12:05 AM   #138
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Re: How many reset buttons?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Yes but when fans used the phrase TNG-lite it wasn't as a compliment, it was in some ways saying if you want the real thing watch TNG, this is an inferior product.

Some of the complaints levelled at it regarding resources issues could have been avoided by a line drop i.e.

Captain's Log stardate 52101.2 We have just left Dalarian space where we were able to replenish our anti-matter supplies.

But you can't have a line like "saying we only have 39 photon torpedeos and no way to replace them" and then use more than that without saying how you got more. It's story telling 101.

It's a well known fact that Sci-Fi fans pick up on these continuity errors, now of course you have to appeal toa wider audiance who might not care about such things, but go back to my point above drop a line into an episode. Voyager is under heavy attack.

"I'm glad we were able to bring our torepdeo compliment up to full"

It has little or no impact on the episode itself.

Now of course other shows have plot holes in them as well, and VOY did have it's moments.
Working 14 to 16 hours a day and having to do script re-writes on the spot, I can see how such lines could be forgotten or written out. Honestly before joining this site, I never knew sci-fi fans watched so closely or were so anal about such things. I never thought such minor details mattered more that the story within the ep. itself. They never showed a shortage, so I had forgotten the line about not replacing them was ever mentioned.
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Old January 3 2013, 12:08 AM   #139
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Re: How many reset buttons?

It's not that we watch closely, its that we watch ad nauseum.
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Old January 3 2013, 11:51 PM   #140
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Re: How many reset buttons?

Remember that episode where Chakotay has this girlfriend that everyone forgot about somehow? Maybe some of whatever it was her people used to make everyone forget about them got into the ship's water supply.
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Old January 4 2013, 04:27 AM   #141
exodus
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Re: How many reset buttons?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
It's not that we watch closely, its that we watch ad nauseum.

Probably so.
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Old January 4 2013, 11:14 AM   #142
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Re: How many reset buttons?

exodus wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
Yes but when fans used the phrase TNG-lite it wasn't as a compliment, it was in some ways saying if you want the real thing watch TNG, this is an inferior product.

Some of the complaints levelled at it regarding resources issues could have been avoided by a line drop i.e.

Captain's Log stardate 52101.2 We have just left Dalarian space where we were able to replenish our anti-matter supplies.

But you can't have a line like "saying we only have 39 photon torpedeos and no way to replace them" and then use more than that without saying how you got more. It's story telling 101.

It's a well known fact that Sci-Fi fans pick up on these continuity errors, now of course you have to appeal toa wider audiance who might not care about such things, but go back to my point above drop a line into an episode. Voyager is under heavy attack.

"I'm glad we were able to bring our torepdeo compliment up to full"

It has little or no impact on the episode itself.

Now of course other shows have plot holes in them as well, and VOY did have it's moments.
Working 14 to 16 hours a day and having to do script re-writes on the spot, I can see how such lines could be forgotten or written out. Honestly before joining this site, I never knew sci-fi fans watched so closely or were so anal about such things. I never thought such minor details mattered more that the story within the ep. itself. They never showed a shortage, so I had forgotten the line about not replacing them was ever mentioned.
But VOY as a whole was about the Journey of the USS VOyager tring to get from the DQ back to Earth. So when you view it as a series of 7 seasons and some 174 episodes, these seemingly minor details matter. The premise of the show called out for a more serialised format, they ended up doing a more episodic show. Sure there where the odd nods to arc based telling.

But if we take the concept of Chekhov's Gun. If you show a gun on the wall with 6 bullets in Act I, you would expect that gun to be used later but only have 6 shots fired.

No Voyager didn't do a visual of the gun they made a statement, it is not the viewers fault, for calling them on the fact they ignored they something previously established.

They could have said "We Only have 39 torpedeos" they choose to add the bit about having no way to replace them. They wanted to call attention to that deatail, they couldn't decide on how many crew members the ship had it fluctuated up and down throughout the show.

But as I've said before VOY did have it's moments and Robert Picardo as the EMH was one of the shows plus points, but it could have been so much more.
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Old January 4 2013, 11:50 AM   #143
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Re: How many reset buttons?

A few lines they might have added.

Kim "Ma'am, Sir, sorry, Captain... I know how to make Torpedoes."

Janeway "Really kid? You do! That's incredible. Will they be as powerful as the ones we have now?"

Kim: "Ma'am, I mean Captain, Federation Torpedoes are total pussies. It's all about humane treatment of the target, reducing collateral damage and acceptable levels of genocide, if you give me 80 pounds of antimatter and 3 days and I'll make you a full compliment of torpedoes that can rip suns in half."

(Remember Carter from Hogans Heroes? He loved making things go boom.)
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Old January 4 2013, 01:05 PM   #144
lurok
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Re: How many reset buttons?

exodus wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
It's not that we watch closely, its that we watch ad nauseum.

Probably so.
Definitely so. Though some more than others.
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Old January 5 2013, 04:22 AM   #145
exodus
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Re: How many reset buttons?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
Yes but when fans used the phrase TNG-lite it wasn't as a compliment, it was in some ways saying if you want the real thing watch TNG, this is an inferior product.

Some of the complaints levelled at it regarding resources issues could have been avoided by a line drop i.e.

Captain's Log stardate 52101.2 We have just left Dalarian space where we were able to replenish our anti-matter supplies.

But you can't have a line like "saying we only have 39 photon torpedeos and no way to replace them" and then use more than that without saying how you got more. It's story telling 101.

It's a well known fact that Sci-Fi fans pick up on these continuity errors, now of course you have to appeal toa wider audiance who might not care about such things, but go back to my point above drop a line into an episode. Voyager is under heavy attack.

"I'm glad we were able to bring our torepdeo compliment up to full"

It has little or no impact on the episode itself.

Now of course other shows have plot holes in them as well, and VOY did have it's moments.
Working 14 to 16 hours a day and having to do script re-writes on the spot, I can see how such lines could be forgotten or written out. Honestly before joining this site, I never knew sci-fi fans watched so closely or were so anal about such things. I never thought such minor details mattered more that the story within the ep. itself. They never showed a shortage, so I had forgotten the line about not replacing them was ever mentioned.
But VOY as a whole was about the Journey of the USS VOyager tring to get from the DQ back to Earth. So when you view it as a series of 7 seasons and some 174 episodes, these seemingly minor details matter. The premise of the show called out for a more serialised format, they ended up doing a more episodic show. Sure there where the odd nods to arc based telling.

But if we take the concept of Chekhov's Gun. If you show a gun on the wall with 6 bullets in Act I, you would expect that gun to be used later but only have 6 shots fired.

No Voyager didn't do a visual of the gun they made a statement, it is not the viewers fault, for calling them on the fact they ignored they something previously established.

They could have said "We Only have 39 torpedeos" they choose to add the bit about having no way to replace them. They wanted to call attention to that deatail, they couldn't decide on how many crew members the ship had it fluctuated up and down throughout the show.
Did we ever notice or care about:

Trills can't use transporters
Dax is beaming up and down everywhere

Riker acts like he's never seen a holodeck before or how it works
Janeway and Harry mention how they grew up on Flotter holodeck stories.

Picard calls the Mentalkins believe in a higher power a false superstition but yet honors the Klingons & Bajorians religious beliefs.

Data fights for his rights in order not to be dismantled because: "If I am destroyed the universe will loose something unique that can never be replaced." and is willingly to resign his commission in order to live.
Data blows himself up willingly in Nemesis.

Trek has been forgetting things written and said within it for decades and we've skimmed over it. They've never really shown and storage of much on Voyager, so I can see why they and much of the audience could forget the line about torpedeos.
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Old January 5 2013, 05:45 AM   #146
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Re: How many reset buttons?

exodus wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Working 14 to 16 hours a day and having to do script re-writes on the spot, I can see how such lines could be forgotten or written out. Honestly before joining this site, I never knew sci-fi fans watched so closely or were so anal about such things. I never thought such minor details mattered more that the story within the ep. itself. They never showed a shortage, so I had forgotten the line about not replacing them was ever mentioned.
But VOY as a whole was about the Journey of the USS VOyager tring to get from the DQ back to Earth. So when you view it as a series of 7 seasons and some 174 episodes, these seemingly minor details matter. The premise of the show called out for a more serialised format, they ended up doing a more episodic show. Sure there where the odd nods to arc based telling.

But if we take the concept of Chekhov's Gun. If you show a gun on the wall with 6 bullets in Act I, you would expect that gun to be used later but only have 6 shots fired.

No Voyager didn't do a visual of the gun they made a statement, it is not the viewers fault, for calling them on the fact they ignored they something previously established.

They could have said "We Only have 39 torpedeos" they choose to add the bit about having no way to replace them. They wanted to call attention to that deatail, they couldn't decide on how many crew members the ship had it fluctuated up and down throughout the show.
Did we ever notice or care about:

Trills can't use transporters
Dax is beaming up and down everywhere

Riker acts like he's never seen a holodeck before or how it works
Janeway and Harry mention how they grew up on Flotter holodeck stories.

Picard calls the Mentalkins believe in a higher power a false superstition but yet honors the Klingons & Bajorians religious beliefs.

Data fights for his rights in order not to be dismantled because: "If I am destroyed the universe will loose something unique that can never be replaced." and is willingly to resign his commission in order to live.
Data blows himself up willingly in Nemesis.

Trek has been forgetting things written and said within it for decades and we've skimmed over it. They've never really shown and storage of much on Voyager, so I can see why they and much of the audience could forget the line about torpedeos.

The first 2 are contradictions between 2 different shows which is quite a bit different then contradictions in the same series. The 3rd is hypocrisy on Picard's part and not really a contradiction. The 4th is 2 entirely different situations.
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Old January 6 2013, 12:30 AM   #147
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Re: How many reset buttons?

Just an idea about the Torpedo issue.
If anyone has season 5 extras of Voyager,Rick Sternbach explains how Voyager can replicate the casings of Torpedoes and collect the required elements from space stations,trades,planets they visited to make more.

Also in one of the novels they stated that the Enterprise-E was making torpedoes. (i know the novels are not canon)
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Old January 6 2013, 12:44 AM   #148
Guy Gardener
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Re: How many reset buttons?

We saw them build two Delta Fliers.

If they can't build "torpedoes" when they can build Super Shuttles with a full and new compliment of torpedoes, well then that's just ridiculous.

They had to spend a week upgrading their workshop.

It's not a big deal.

In the Omega Directive we saw Tuvok build a super bomb.

Whatever they couldn't do in the third episode, they got over it.

Although I would have liked to have seen them borrow from the species they met if the bad guys were using better weapons than Photon Torpedoes then who ever was down int he workshop should have been able to reverse engineer what had almost kicked their ass... And if there was a work shop that could make anything, then there's no reason that once they got in touch with earth that they could have and shoud have been building quantum torpedoes if even Quark could sell them to the 20th century Military.
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Old January 6 2013, 12:50 AM   #149
MacLeod
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Re: How many reset buttons?

exodus wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Working 14 to 16 hours a day and having to do script re-writes on the spot, I can see how such lines could be forgotten or written out. Honestly before joining this site, I never knew sci-fi fans watched so closely or were so anal about such things. I never thought such minor details mattered more that the story within the ep. itself. They never showed a shortage, so I had forgotten the line about not replacing them was ever mentioned.
But VOY as a whole was about the Journey of the USS VOyager tring to get from the DQ back to Earth. So when you view it as a series of 7 seasons and some 174 episodes, these seemingly minor details matter. The premise of the show called out for a more serialised format, they ended up doing a more episodic show. Sure there where the odd nods to arc based telling.

But if we take the concept of Chekhov's Gun. If you show a gun on the wall with 6 bullets in Act I, you would expect that gun to be used later but only have 6 shots fired.

No Voyager didn't do a visual of the gun they made a statement, it is not the viewers fault, for calling them on the fact they ignored they something previously established.

They could have said "We Only have 39 torpedeos" they choose to add the bit about having no way to replace them. They wanted to call attention to that deatail, they couldn't decide on how many crew members the ship had it fluctuated up and down throughout the show.
Did we ever notice or care about:

Trills can't use transporters
Dax is beaming up and down everywhere

Data fights for his rights in order not to be dismantled because: "If I am destroyed the universe will loose something unique that can never be replaced." and is willingly to resign his commission in order to live.
Data blows himself up willingly in Nemesis.

Trek has been forgetting things written and said within it for decades and we've skimmed over it. They've never really shown and storage of much on Voyager, so I can see why they and much of the audience could forget the line about torpedeos.
Transporter tech was improved. We accept that Warp Drive improves between shows so accepting that they fixed that issue is not a stretch

With regards to Data the first was not by choice the second was by choice.

And yes Trek has been forgetting about things for years. And all shows have their pros and cons, continuity gaffs etc...
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Old January 6 2013, 05:10 PM   #150
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Re: How many reset buttons?

Star TRek Voyager uses the reset button more extensively than Generations or Ent. Apparently races with more advanced technology has more freewill with programs in replicators that can do 360 degrees around the ship at a touch of a button. That is what the writers were directed to do. So it is not too abnormal that in another ep. everything is put together again. This is the same as a camper who must make a new camp every 7 days because this is what he does. This is the same as when B'Ellanna walks into a room in the middle of an ep. all damp and fresh. Now everyone together. Who pushed her---.
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