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Old December 27 2012, 10:05 PM   #31
marksound
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Actually, it would be possible for them to meet the future Marty and Jennifer, since from the future time point, Marty and Jen have already arrived back in 1985, thus completing the circuit, and just leaving the younger time travelling selves the opportunity to come forward and visit them without appearing to have disappeared.

As Captain Janeway said once, time travel gives her (and us) headaches.
It's the Bill & Ted rules of time travel. "When we get back we'll put (whatever) right here so we can use it now," and there it is.

Marty was only gone from 1985 if he didn't go back to the same time he left.
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Old December 28 2012, 09:51 PM   #32
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tighr wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I looked for "the other Marty" on my blue ray, but I don't see him. Can someone use a screen shot and circle him?
He's not there.
It was actually Eric Stoltz in the background planning his revenge because the producers were able to finally get Michael J. Fox to play Marty! He is truly the 'Other Marty Mcfly' . LOL
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Old December 28 2012, 10:20 PM   #33
Dick Whitman
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tighr wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I looked for "the other Marty" on my blue ray, but I don't see him. Can someone use a screen shot and circle him?
He's not there.
Correct. That theory is from the old VHS days. When a person could not clearly pause on a frame.

Its a classic case of believing you saw something because you want to think you are clever. Those articles predate the release of Part III. This was part of a theory that at the end of Part III Mary would learn he had been replaced in 1985 by this "other Marty". So he could not return to his normal life and would continue to time travel with Doc. Hence a setup for more sequels. Obviously none of that turned out of be true!
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Old December 28 2012, 10:38 PM   #34
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tighr wrote: View Post
for example "Terminator rules, that is, it's one way only and you can't go back. "
Actually I think thats more because there wouldn't be a temporal displacement device in 1984 to use for any potential trips forward in time and the one in 2029 was planned to be destroyed after sending Reese and the reprogrammed T-800 back in time, then any fundamental rule about time travel in the Terminator movies.
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Old December 28 2012, 11:43 PM   #35
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
for example "Terminator rules, that is, it's one way only and you can't go back. "
Actually I think thats more because there wouldn't be a temporal displacement device in 1984 to use for any potential trips forward in time and the one in 2029 was planned to be destroyed after sending Reese and the reprogrammed T-800 back in time, then any fundamental rule about time travel in the Terminator movies.
Sorry, that was a subtle quote from a South Park episode dealing with time travel.

South Park wrote:
News Reporter: Aaron, I'm standing at the Time Portal, which scientists say follows Terminator rules, that is it's one way only and you can't go back. This is in contrast to say, Back to the Future rules, where back and forth is possible, and of course Time Rider rules which are just plain silly.
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Old December 29 2012, 03:49 AM   #36
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Donald Draper wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I looked for "the other Marty" on my blue ray, but I don't see him. Can someone use a screen shot and circle him?
He's not there.
Correct. That theory is from the old VHS days.
Plus weren't all the old VHS's released in 4:3 pan & scan, which actually provided more picture than the current widescreen DVD's and Blu-Ray's. (All three movies were shot in 1.37:1, but were filmed with a soft matte in mind for theatrical exhibition.). So people might've thought they saw something on "new" picture that wasn't seen in the theatrical exhibition.
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Old December 29 2012, 09:53 AM   #37
Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Having got the Blu-Ray of the trilogy for X-mas, one of the things I noticed about part3 was rather odd.


In part one, at some point over 30 years (but likely close to 1985) Do decides "what the hell" and reads the letter. However, on November 12, 1955, he's dead-set against it. so is it that the next day, he's not steaming mad - maybe at himself - when he learns of his own fate by reading his own letter.

This makes me think that the theory of time travel in these films is comprised of separate layers. There is one reality in which no time travel ever happened. Then, layered through it somehow, is another layer wherein Mary travels to the past and meets Doc, and Doc refuses to read the letter until later, and that future resolves itself. The next layer assumes the other layer itself before Doc reads his own letter from 1885. My point is that Doc's decision to say "what the he''?" is not dependent on having read his own letter from 1885, and he would have come to that conclusion anyway, and the continuum would have assumed that that decision played itself out before mapping how Marty's return to see Doc the very next day might affect it. This works much like the logic of the second film, where in Mary and Jennifer can travel into the future but the time continuum assumes that they made it back to the present to grow up together and have kids.

Oh gawd, my brain hurts. I love these movies.
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Old December 29 2012, 10:05 AM   #38
Trekker4747
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
In part one, at some point over 30 years (but likely close to 1985) Do decides "what the hell" and reads the letter. However, on November 12, 1955, he's dead-set against it. so is it that the next day, he's not steaming mad - maybe at himself - when he learns of his own fate by reading his own letter.
Like he says, he figured "what the hell?!" once he knew the information he could then decide what to do with it. But he obviously must have read the letter in 1955 because it'd be hard to reassemble and tape together the letter without reading it. (But, I guess, not impossible.) It may have been the next day when things calmed down he figured there'd be little harm in it.

It would have been nice if in 3 we had gotten a nod to the idea that Marty's plan will still work. With Doc picking the coat up off the ground (wearing it that morning in the cool California in November desert?), finding the scraps and getting a look of "You know..." in his head.

It's also "possible" knowing the danger he was in Doc always WAS wearing the bullet-proof vest, Marty just never got the chance to see Doc survive the first time around because of the Libyans. (Doc remains on the ground, unconscious, in both versions of the time line through the DeLorean/Bus chase and time travel sequence. And in both cases Marty gives Doc a cursory check, the second time around "our" Marty apparently not noticing the lack of blood on the corpse or the bulky BP vest on Doc. So he must have "felt the same" as he did earlier.)
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Old December 29 2012, 10:16 AM   #39
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tighr wrote: View Post
South Park ... and of course Time Rider rules which are just plain silly.
Would those be the ... "travel back in time to the old west on a dirt bike and conceive your own grandmother with your incredible hot great-grandmother, then a helicopter shows up out of nowhere" ... rules?

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Old December 31 2012, 07:05 PM   #40
Argus Skyhawk
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
But he obviously must have read the letter in 1955 because it'd be hard to reassemble and tape together the letter without reading it. (But, I guess, not impossible.)
I suppose its possible he kept the scraps together in an envelope and then reassembled them 30 years later, but not too likely though. So yeah, I always assumed Doc reassembled and read the letter in 1955.
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Old December 31 2012, 07:38 PM   #41
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
It would have been nice if in 3 we had gotten a nod to the idea that Marty's plan will still work. With Doc picking the coat up off the ground (wearing it that morning in the cool California in November desert?), finding the scraps and getting a look of "You know..." in his head.

Perhaps Marty was thinking.

"It will work out in end. Sure he tore up the letter NOW but he'll piece together later and ultimately wear a bulletproof vest"


BTTF 3 Marty could cause a paradox/more damage if he mentioned the letter again to Doc.


Doc- Oh right! Now i'm going to throw it in the trash after I ripped it up.

*More complications ensue.*
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Old January 2 2013, 04:15 AM   #42
Morpheus 02
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Donald Draper wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
He's not there.
Correct. That theory is from the old VHS days.
Plus weren't all the old VHS's released in 4:3 pan & scan, which actually provided more picture than the current widescreen DVD's and Blu-Ray's. (All three movies were shot in 1.37:1, but were filmed with a soft matte in mind for theatrical exhibition.). So people might've thought they saw something on "new" picture that wasn't seen in the theatrical exhibition.
i think your wrong. It's not there YET -- the future hasn't happened yet! Haven't we been paying attention to the BTTF trilogy?

It'll be in a future revised version, where they add in details like this a la George Lucas.
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Old January 2 2013, 08:18 PM   #43
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tighr wrote: View Post
That being said, one of the things that I was unable to rectify is how Marty (and Jennifer) are able to meet their future selves in 2015. By traveling into the future, they no longer exist in 1985, and therefore do not grow old to exist in 2015. You can't visit your future self, but you can visit your past self.
From the writers' official FAQ, mandatory reading for every fan:

To be honest, yes, it very well should erase their existence from the future. This is, in fact, the ultimate paradox of Back to the Future Part II. We really thought about this one for a long time, but we finally decided that after the set-up of Doc saying "Something's got to be done about your kids," the audience would feel cheated if we went to the future and found out they didn't exist. You could, however, argue that existence of Old Marty, Old Jennifer and their kids in the future automatically proves that young Marty and Jennifer will eventually get back to 1985. The flaw in this reasoning is that Doc repeatedly tells us that the future isn't written, so why would this part of the future be "written?" Ah, but Back to the Future Part III may contain the answer to this question after all. When Doc spots the tombstone in 1885 and sees that the name on the photograph of the tombstone has vanished but the date remains, he says "We know this photograph represents what will happen if the events of today continue to run their course into tomorrow." That's a pretty big "if." And it suggests that time travel to the future always takes you to a future based on the events of the time you left — a logical extrapolation of what the future of that moment holds. Of course, the existence of free will allows for the possibility of infinite futures, which is what Doc says at the end of Back to the Future Part III: "Your future is whatever you make it." But time travel into the future takes you to the most likely future of the moment you left.
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Old January 2 2013, 08:37 PM   #44
tighr
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Gaith wrote: View Post
From the writers' official FAQ, mandatory reading for every fan:
Yes, thank you. I have read that before.

As I stated, I am unable to rectify that glaring error in the film. As Zemekis says, they goofed at the end of BTTF Part I, mostly because they never intended to make a sequel. That scene at the end pretty much pigeon-holed them for Part II. The plot about the "kids" was pretty thin, which is why they had to beef it up with the real plot, the almanac.

Internally, following the logic of the BTTF universe, I am OK with things like the photographs or newspapers disappearing/changing. Those things are relics of a future time (that now exist in a past time), a time that is in jeopardy based on events that occur in the past. But in BTTF Part II, they are physically in that future time, so nothing they do there has any effect on, well, really anything.

It was cool to see the future (the whole point of making the movie). But if this were reality (hahaha) a better thing for Doc to do would be come back at the end of Part I and say, "Marty, your kids turn out to be assholes. In 30 years, make sure you keep an eye on them." Takes less jiggawatts that way.
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Old January 2 2013, 10:54 PM   #45
Trekker4747
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Anyone ever consider what the "Mr. Fusion" on the back of the DeLorean (and presumably a power source used all over in 2015) is really capable of? Forget that it's capable of providing cold fusion in a small space and is "stable" enough to be mounted on a car. But what we see it do is simply incredible, on some levels it's more powerful than any other natural fusion reaction in the universe.

In massive stars hydrogen is fused together to form helium, then helium to form carbon, and some of the other elements are mixed in there but once a star (if its big enough) gets to iron it cannot go any further. At that point there's not enough energy in the star to fuse two iron molecules together to from the next element, at this point the star is so heavy and dense that it collapses into itself likely forming a black-hole.

When we see Doc use the Mr. Fusion at the end of BTTF 1/beginning of BTTF 2 we see him dump inside the Mr. Fusion chamber some eggs, beer, an aluminum can, styrofoam and some other pieces of garbage. "Somehow" the Mr. Fusion is capable of taking these materials that not only contain elements much more complex than hydrogen or helium but alos contains chemical compounds. Rather than pretty much doing nothing because it doesn't have the power to, the Mr. Fusion is able to take the stuff dumped into and convert it into raw, pure, energy. (Also I'm sure some number crunching of what we see Doc put into the device would equal far more than 1.21 GW.)
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