Putting the Shatner "ego issue" from TOS to rest

[ssosmcin]

Dale Sams wrote:

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Yeah, but he did have to live in A VAN by THE RIVER.

Yep and in theater parking lots and actors driveways and other places with his little camper. It was a lean time after Star Trek for him, but he kept working, getting roles and finally got momentum back. He succeeded. And nobody can tell me he was LESS identified with his role than Doohan or Takei. For the same number of people who thought Doohan was Scott, Shatner was Kirk. Yet Shatner was able to get past the dark time and revitalize his career.

So, to me, this is "supporting cast sour grapes" and another way to stay in the spotlight.

[Melakon]

Another element that hasn't been brought up in this discussion, Shatner owned a small percentage (5%?) of TOS, so much of his on-set behavior may have been from the pressure of having a personal stake in making the show a success, critically and financially.

[Jonas Grumby]

I often wonder if the truth isn't just that a whole lot of Trek fans love--and are willing to pay to hear--stories about how awful Shatner is. And everyone from James Doohan to Yvonne Craig knew/knows it.

[Mr Awe]

^^ I'd rather hear that they all got along great! So, nope, that's not it. Much more fun to picture them all have a great time together.

[A beaker full of death]

Melakon wrote:

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Shatner owned a small percentage (5%?) of TOS

This is the very first I have ever heard of this. Are you sure?

It's simple. The gang of four spear-carriers started believing all the hot air the fans blew up their skirts. Truth is, Shatner was THE star. Period.

Shatner wasn't an ass, he was just a working actor hustling as best he could to support himself and his family. The man never turned down a paying gig in his life.

That said, he only learned late in life that he had to pander to the Trekies to make them like him, so he did a George Forman and started making fun of himself. He went from a serious actor who took his craft seriously - yes, perhaps too seriously - to a clown.

Personally, I think we may have missed out on getting some great performances out of him.

[Dale Sams]

A beaker full of death wrote:

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That said, he only learned late in life that he had to pander to the Trekies to make them like him, so he did a George Forman and started making fun of himself. He went from a serious actor who took his craft seriously - yes, perhaps too seriously - to a clown.

Personally, I think we may have missed out on getting some great performances out of him.

I have a little problem with this narrative. Shatner's not a clown. Any self-effacement we see is genuine enough to make it touching (IMHO of course). His cover of "Common People", and that whole damn album, is utterly brilliant.

I think at some point after doing fare like "The People", "Horror at 37,000 Feet" (Not the TZ ep), and "The Devil's Rain"...he became unable to convince himself that the guy who did some marvelously subtle work in the first season of TOS, and his first TZ appearance could do that again.

The fact that he could reinvent himself as someone who still has something interesting to say on the human condition is nothing short of amazing to me.

[ssosmcin]

A beaker full of death wrote:

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This is the very first I have ever heard of this. Are you sure?

Yes, it's mentioned in the Justman/Solow book. It was really more of a profit participation for the series only. But Star Trek lost money first run, so he got nothing. His percentage was lost in his divorce settlement, I think, so his ex would have gotten it anyway, I believe.

[Jonas Grumby]

Mr Awe wrote:

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^^ I'd rather hear that they all got along great! So, nope, that's not it. Much more fun to picture them all have a great time together.

You're seriously contending that stories about Shatner's alleged vileness are not popular in both convention presentations and "tell-all" books?

[CoveTom]

^ They may be, but for my money, I'd much rather see a group of people like the TNG cast who get together on stage, have a lot of fun, and obviously love each other. That's far more entertaining in my book than hearing embittered actors air their dirty laundry.

[TREK_GOD_1]

ssosmcin wrote:

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The most interesting part of the conversation was about Takei: George and Walter are NOT good friends, yet George made him his best man. Hmmm.

Publicity. No one Takei uses any chance to milk the legacy of ST anywhere he can, including turning his personal business into a would-be pop culture footnote. If memory serves, he also invited Shatner and Nimoy, but both found other things to do.

Note to lower tier Trek actors: get over it. Shatner doesn't start this crap, you do. He'd be more than happy to let you all fade into memory and ride his horses.

Well said. There's no other TV series in history where minor supporting characters complained so much (and often) about something they did not earn--or deserve considering the level their characters occupied.

I always find it funny that during the production of TOS, Nimoy also line counted, made demands, and took advantage of his swelling popularity--it was about himself, not the supporting players (he did not become their official champion until the casting issues surrounding the animated series), yet they do not attack him, when his own demands certainly (in the big picutre) limited the supporters' weekly parts.

[Jonas Grumby]

CoveTom wrote:

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^ They may be, but for my money...

And that's the point. I don't think you can argue that, for whatever reason, the people booking conventions and publishing tell-all books obviously believe the "feud" sells.

Are they right? Or would sales have been even higher if the Trek alumni had put forward a public face of hearty camaraderie? I guess we'll never know.

But, hey, I'm on your side! I even offered a theory on how they could have promoted the "feud" for decades now (as they have) and yet still be buddy-buddies.

[1001001]

Okay,

My wife and I just went to a Star Trek convention in San Francisco. We had VIP passes, which included private time with all the stars. Here's what we heard:

George Takei talked about how William Shatner went on the radio talking about how insulted he was that he was not invited to George's wedding (we met his husband Brad, and he was a very cool guy). George said that several months later, when asked, Shatner could not name George's husband. He then asked the crowd "How concerned could he be when he didn't even know my husband's name?? Why would we invite him? He doesn't know us!"

George was asked if any of his castmates knew he was gay. He replied "One day on set, Walter (Keonig) pointed out a particularly handsome extra, and that's when I knew that he knew." So Walter knew George was gay during the 60's, was cool with it, and even tried to hook him up!

I personally saw George and Walter exchange a big, genuine hug backstage. It was obvious to me they were close.

Take that for what you will.

CoveTom wrote:

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^ They may be, but for my money, I'd much rather see a group of people like the TNG cast who get together on stage, have a lot of fun, and obviously love each other. That's far more entertaining in my book than hearing embittered actors air their dirty laundry.

At the same convention, we saw many TNG actors. And yes, they were all very affectionate with each other. They appeared onstage together, messed with each other, danced with each other, etc. Brent Spiner came to the microphone when LeVar Burton as onstage and messed with him. Marina Sirtis messed with Brent Spiner. We had our picture taken with all of them, and they were genuinely happy to see each other. TNG definitely has Esprit de Corps.

[Dale Sams]

All I know is that Shatner's performance in the "Get a Life" sketch is Brill-iant. Especially given that he had very little time to rehearse it.

If I were to ever ask Shatner one of those "Do you remember when this tiny bit of minutiae occured" questions...it would be "Did you expect Phil Hartman to shove you like that? Cause you two are pushing each other...very...hard."

[Josan]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote:

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I always find it funny that during the production of TOS, Nimoy also line counted, made demands, and took advantage of his swelling popularity--it was about himself, not the supporting players (he did not become their official champion until the casting issues surrounding the animated series), yet they do not attack him, when his own demands certainly (in the big picutre) limited the supporters' weekly parts.

An excellent point.

[Dale Sams]

Josan wrote:

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An excellent point.

But did he intentionally tank a scene with Takei that would have given him (Takei) command of a starship 4 films earlier than VI? Hnnh? HNNH!?

At least I think I read that.