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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old December 30 2012, 11:09 AM   #166
Lance
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Re: Insurrection

Santaval wrote: View Post
los2188 wrote: View Post
There's something about Insurrection that I've always kind of wondered about. The Ba'ku weren't indigenous to that planet, but obviously they benefited from the "fountain of youth" on that planet. If the Ba'ku were so...enlightened and nice, for lack of better words, why wouldn't they just share the planet with others for the purpose of helping others? I mean they are a population of 600. They wouldn't even take up a fourth of the planet. Why not have their small area, and open up maybe 50% of the other side of the planet where the sick can come for help for medical reasons?
They were selfish.
^ This. Anji in particular always struck me like she was manipulating Picard to her own (unexplained) aims. The trouble with this script is that it expects us to side with the Ba'ku... but if you look at it more objectively, they're just as bad as the Sona. Except, of course, that they're the ones who have "paradise", and are just eager that everybody leave them alone to enjoy it.
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Old December 30 2012, 03:52 PM   #167
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Insurrection

los2188 wrote: View Post
There's something about Insurrection that I've always kind of wondered about. The Ba'ku weren't indigenous to that planet, but obviously they benefited from the "fountain of youth" on that planet. If the Ba'ku were so...enlightened and nice, for lack of better words, why wouldn't they just share the planet with others for the purpose of helping others? I mean they are a population of 600. They wouldn't even take up a fourth of the planet. Why not have their small area, and open up maybe 50% of the other side of the planet where the sick can come for help for medical reasons?
Nobody asked.
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Old December 30 2012, 06:25 PM   #168
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Re: Insurrection

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Nobody asked.
And the Baku didn't offer.

Because they're selfish.
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Old December 30 2012, 06:49 PM   #169
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Re: Insurrection

Actually the bad guys are not in the right, their "cure" for old age was a byproduct for anyone else based on an act of revenge. By getting themselves involved in a personal vendetta, one which they did not investigate and did not know the repercussions of, the UFP made themselves culpable in multiple crimes.

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Old December 30 2012, 07:32 PM   #170
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Re: Insurrection

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
do you think the metaphasic reaction collector thing at the end was supposed to be repeatable?
Possibly. It depends on the particles and their half life. The more radioactive something is, the shorter the half life. The particles would seem to be radiating something, that's how the people on the surface benefit from orbital particles that they're separated from by some distance.

I figure that the planet's magnetic field accumulated the particles over a period of time. Either from the Brier Patch, or more likely the system's star is emitting the particles.

If the particles have a half life of say a single century, then the rings would have to be continuous "re-supplied" at a fairly fast rate. If the half life is many thousands of years, then longer to re-supply. There no mention in the movie that the particles are going to be altered by the harvest, if anything you would want to be carefully not to change them in any way. Just collect them for transport to the Sona worlds and the hundreds of billions of people spread throughout the Federation who will benefit from them.

The particles could have a medical "endurance" of just centuries, or they could remain useful for many thousands of years.

So yes JarodRussell, it very possible that the Federation will be able to perform periodic harvests of the particles.

Which means the relocation would have killed all of the old Ba'ku, wouldn't it?
What would have happen to the Baku if they did leave? Was Anji actually rejuvenated from an old woman, to the middle aged woman we saw? If so, then the Baku would begin to age normally, and not rapidly age to 600 plus years, upon leaving.

On the other hand, was Anji a extremely old woman who was being held in a momentary state of relative youth, by constant exposure to the effects of the particles?

And is it possible that Geordi's eye were in fact permanently repaired, despite his statement in the movie?

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Old December 30 2012, 07:49 PM   #171
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Re: Insurrection

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Nobody asked.
And the Baku didn't offer.
They live on a hard to find planet in an area where its hard to call anyone who where they supposed to make an offer to.

Because they're selfish.
We know this how?
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Old December 30 2012, 09:56 PM   #172
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Re: Insurrection

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
They live on a hard to find planet in an area where its hard to call anyone who where they supposed to make an offer to.
To start with, Picard.
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Old December 30 2012, 10:36 PM   #173
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Re: Insurrection

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Nobody asked.
And the Baku didn't offer.
They live on a hard to find planet in an area where its hard to call anyone who where they supposed to make an offer to.

Because they're selfish.
We know this how?

oh, I don't know, Picard, the Son'a, the observation team, etc.

they never even consider the idea, it doesn't occur to them for a moment, nor are they honest about what they have there when Picard first meets them. All that we see of them in the movie suggests that they care only about themselves and preserving their privileged lifestyle. The Son'a, and Dougherty on the other hand, the supposed "villains" of the movie, seem to care about a larger view of things.
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Old December 30 2012, 11:43 PM   #174
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Re: Insurrection

Nope. All the Son'a, even the ones who touchingly came back at the end, die. It was stated it was already too late for most of them.

Helping medical technology for countless billions aside, their placing their immortality over the well being of the Son'a, their own kin, pretty much makes them selfish to the first degree.
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Old January 1 2013, 05:02 PM   #175
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Re: Insurrection

1. Do we know this planet is actually a Federation planet? I thought that the Federation and the indigenous population had to mutually agree on inclusion into the Federation? Since the Federation was meeting the Bak'u for the first time, I think it's safe to assume they were not members of the Federation and neither was the planet. Now maybe the star system was Federation territory, but when they're dealing with pre-warp cultures I think they merely protect the planet and don't own it. That's my impression at least.

2. The Bak'u moved onto their planet over a century prior to the events of Insurrection (am I right on that timeline?). The Federation seemed unaware of their particular area of the quadrant, not having their ships retrofitted for the briar patch. They had no knowledge of the metaphasic radiation, the Bak'u, the properties of the briar patch, etc. before this mission. So how can you say that the Federation own this planet and the Bak'u are merely squatters when in reality the Bak'u had been there for over a century and the Federation knew nothing about it? I think the Bak'u pretty much own the planet. If they don't want to share their technology, then they don't have to.
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Old January 1 2013, 05:09 PM   #176
sonak
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Re: Insurrection

Will Riker wrote: View Post
1. Do we know this planet is actually a Federation planet? I thought that the Federation and the indigenous population had to mutually agree on inclusion into the Federation? Since the Federation was meeting the Bak'u for the first time, I think it's safe to assume they were not members of the Federation and neither was the planet. Now maybe the star system was Federation territory, but when they're dealing with pre-warp cultures I think they merely protect the planet and don't own it. That's my impression at least.

2. The Bak'u moved onto their planet over a century prior to the events of Insurrection (am I right on that timeline?). The Federation seemed unaware of their particular area of the quadrant, not having their ships retrofitted for the briar patch. They had no knowledge of the metaphasic radiation, the Bak'u, the properties of the briar patch, etc. before this mission. So how can you say that the Federation own this planet and the Bak'u are merely squatters when in reality the Bak'u had been there for over a century and the Federation knew nothing about it? I think the Bak'u pretty much own the planet. If they don't want to share their technology, then they don't have to.

it was in UFP territory, but again, even if one takes your view, it doesn't help the case for Picard's actions and the Baku are still going to be removed. Because if it's NOT a Federation planet then there's no reason for Picard to be defending the Baku against removal.(He may have an argument for trying to prevent DOUGHERTY's involvement, but he has NO argument for preventing the Son'a from fighting it out with the Baku as an internal matter.)
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Old January 1 2013, 05:16 PM   #177
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Re: Insurrection

sonak wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
And the Baku didn't offer.
They live on a hard to find planet in an area where its hard to call anyone who where they supposed to make an offer to.

Because they're selfish.
We know this how?

oh, I don't know, Picard, the Son'a, the observation team, etc.

they never even consider the idea, it doesn't occur to them for a moment, nor are they honest about what they have there when Picard first meets them. All that we see of them in the movie suggests that they care only about themselves and preserving their privileged lifestyle. The Son'a, and Dougherty on the other hand, the supposed "villains" of the movie, seem to care about a larger view of things.
So basically Kirk should have just stunned all the Halkans and took their dilithium, got it.

I mean why should Kirk respect their privileged lifestyle from sitting on their dilithium just because they are worried the federation might get into a fight with someone

Oh I also take that you go out of your way to invite the homeless, less fortunate, and ect. into your home whenever you run into one of them and are actively looking for people in those situations, right?

Last edited by Hartzilla2007; January 1 2013 at 05:37 PM.
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Old January 1 2013, 06:23 PM   #178
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Re: Insurrection

We don't know what the Ba'Ku thought about having others live there, because as was pointed out, nobody asked.
The Son'a themselves didn't want to live there. At the end, as whatsherface herself said, it will take time for the wounds to heal. But they did accept the Son'a back.
No where in the entire movie did any of the Ba'Ku state they didn't want anyone else living there on the planet. They might not want technology in their village, but as for the rest of the planet....nope, nothing like was ever stated.
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Old January 1 2013, 09:48 PM   #179
sonak
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Re: Insurrection

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

They live on a hard to find planet in an area where its hard to call anyone who where they supposed to make an offer to.

We know this how?

oh, I don't know, Picard, the Son'a, the observation team, etc.

they never even consider the idea, it doesn't occur to them for a moment, nor are they honest about what they have there when Picard first meets them. All that we see of them in the movie suggests that they care only about themselves and preserving their privileged lifestyle. The Son'a, and Dougherty on the other hand, the supposed "villains" of the movie, seem to care about a larger view of things.
So basically Kirk should have just stunned all the Halkans and took their dilithium, got it.

I mean why should Kirk respect their privileged lifestyle from sitting on their dilithium just because they are worried the federation might get into a fight with someone

Oh I also take that you go out of your way to invite the homeless, less fortunate, and ect. into your home whenever you run into one of them and are actively looking for people in those situations, right?

none of your examples/analogies are relevant to the so-called "dilemma" presented by INS.
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Old January 1 2013, 10:37 PM   #180
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Insurrection

sonak wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post


oh, I don't know, Picard, the Son'a, the observation team, etc.

they never even consider the idea, it doesn't occur to them for a moment, nor are they honest about what they have there when Picard first meets them. All that we see of them in the movie suggests that they care only about themselves and preserving their privileged lifestyle. The Son'a, and Dougherty on the other hand, the supposed "villains" of the movie, seem to care about a larger view of things.
So basically Kirk should have just stunned all the Halkans and took their dilithium, got it.

I mean why should Kirk respect their privileged lifestyle from sitting on their dilithium just because they are worried the federation might get into a fight with someone

Oh I also take that you go out of your way to invite the homeless, less fortunate, and ect. into your home whenever you run into one of them and are actively looking for people in those situations, right?

none of your examples/analogies are relevant to the so-called "dilemma" presented by INS.
They are to your assertions that the Ba'ku were under some moral obligation to offer space on their planet to a group they caught spying on them and then found out were planning to kidnap them in their sleep.
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