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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old December 31 2012, 08:03 AM   #16
Sci
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

Skip Homecoming, The Farther Shore, and Spirit Walk Books I and II. They're shit.

Start with Full Circle by Kirsten Beyer. Then read Unworthy, Children of the Storm, and The Eternal Tide.
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Old December 31 2012, 08:03 AM   #17
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

Kim as security chief would be as effective as a high school hall monitor. "Come with me or I'm gonna tell on you."
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Old December 31 2012, 11:01 AM   #18
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

I enjoyed Homecoming and The Farthest Shore. Cracking pace as I recall, lightweight but fun. But I could not finish Spirit Walk and I never read Spirit Walk II. Klingon mysticism is godawful stuff.
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Last edited by teacake; December 31 2012 at 11:27 AM.
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Old December 31 2012, 11:45 AM   #19
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

whoever said higher than ensign is wasted on Ops, should talk to Lieutenant Commander Data about that one. kim is just incompetent, whatever his rank.
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Old December 31 2012, 11:53 AM   #20
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

That was me.

Bigger ship.

More prestigious ship.

Voyager's XO, either of them, were only Lieutenant Commanders.

Smaller ship means less rank required, because it's easier and less stressful.

Makes me wonder...

Did Kathryn have a choice of being the Captain of a tiny ship, or a Commander on a regular sized ship, and she chose to be the Captain of a tiny ship?
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Old December 31 2012, 08:08 PM   #21
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post

Did Kathryn have a choice of being the Captain of a tiny ship, or a Commander on a regular sized ship, and she chose to be the Captain of a tiny ship?
Memory Beta cites Janeway was captain of the USS Bonstell(Oberth class) for a few years before she got Voyager.

Then again Memory Beta also says that vessel was destroyed at Wolf 359, so that's fan wikis for you.

Either way, it would seem to indicate a pattern of getting the captain rank and working your way up to bigger ships as you go. Janeway does strike me as the type to say yes to being CO of a small ship than XO of a big one.
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Old December 31 2012, 10:12 PM   #22
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

That's one of the contradictions in canon.

She's said that Voyager is both her first and second command at different points in the complete story.

This is only worth bringing up because Riker kept turning down dinky Captaincies on ships which were expected to chart jack squat thirty light years away from anywhere interesting.

Riker and Janeway are the opposite.
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Old December 31 2012, 10:24 PM   #23
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

I can just imagine Janeway saying "It's the *ships* that got small".
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Old December 31 2012, 11:59 PM   #24
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Riker and Janeway are the opposite.
Yes! Yes! YES!
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Old January 1 2013, 02:03 AM   #25
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

And opposites attract! *cue nasty Rikerway fanfic*
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Old January 1 2013, 02:16 AM   #26
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

All of the men Janeway likes are softer than her. She wants a homefires burning fellah. Kashyk was a dalliance with the bad boy but he's not someone she would ever set up house with. And Riker is neither of these things, not the genial handyman she prefers and not the dangerous bad boy she can have a little fantasy about. He's just a big, ape-ish, barking putz.
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Old January 1 2013, 04:11 AM   #27
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

teacake wrote: View Post
All of the men Janeway likes are softer than her. She wants a homefires burning fellah. Kashyk was a dalliance with the bad boy but he's not someone she would ever set up house with. And Riker is neither of these things, not the genial handyman she prefers and not the dangerous bad boy she can have a little fantasy about. He's just a big, ape-ish, barking putz.
I think Janeway is a murderous, insane tyrant with bi-polar disorder. That said, even she doesn't deserve Riker. Though Riker does deserve to serve under her command.
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Old January 1 2013, 04:35 AM   #28
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

You know what I love? I love how Janeway stares at someone and says, "I beg your pardon?" as though frozen death rays are coming out of her eyes. She did this in 10 different episodes.

I would like to see a youtube of all these "I beg your pardon"'s.

I would also like to see her say it to Riker.
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Old January 1 2013, 10:11 AM   #29
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Ops is a job for an Ensign.
Isn't Data Ops officer on the enterprise or was?
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Old January 1 2013, 01:41 PM   #30
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Re: Security Chief Kim...really?

Ops on a tiny ship like Voyager is a job for an ensign, which is why they gave it to an ensign.

Ops on Enterprise, which is almost 10 times the size of Voyager, and expected to do anything, anywhere (Ops is also about resource management of the ships stores. The Ops officer is the quartermaster as well as traffic controller for everything else.) is not a job for an ensign green straight out of the academy, even though there were extras in those seats all the time.

Besides.

This isn't a question of just sitting at the Ops station.

This is about the person, Harry or whoever, being a section head.

Commanding staff responsibly.

How much staff, floaters and fixed do you think these two very different Section heads of Ops have to roster and organize on there respective ships?

3 or 4 shifts a day depending on what era we're talking about, then redundancies they can put into play and then green buggers they're still training up.

Data probably had 20 to thirty lieutenants in his stable of Ops officers at any one point. Kim on the other hand probably had 4 or 5 enlisted personal to push around in his ops department because no one above the rank of Ensign during the original "mission" can (without a grain of salt) work in ops on Voyager because Kim can't give them orders or write crew evaluations on his superiors recommending advancement or demotion or transfer, unless you believe that he has magic rank from being a section head like how O'Brien does.

besides if Kim had a huge staff, then why do we almost never see anyone else sitting at the ops station unless he wanders off to do something important like an away mission?
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