Surviving Vulcan Elders.

T'Girl · December 31 2012, 09:32 PM

... my home planet and most of its six billion inhabitants. While the essence of our culture has been saved in the elders who now reside upon the ship, I estimate no more than ten thousand have survived.

I watch ST: Eleven again a few weeks back, and this short statement keeps coming back to me. If Vulcan has colonies, traders, people visiting other worlds, ten thousand total seem a little low for the number of survivors, This has been pointed out before.

But maybe Spock was referring to a different group with the ten thousand figure? Could Spock have been think specfically of the total number of Vulcan elders off of Vulcan at the time of the planet's destruction? Not just those aboard the Enterprise, but other elders spread throughout the Federation, and elsewhere.

The ten thousand figure wasn't meant to be Vulcan survivors in general?

lurok · December 31 2012, 09:59 PM

I just assumed it was survivors of the planet itself. There's still the chicken-eating fun Vulcans out there exploring the cosmos. (ENT is still canon! I do so enjoy writing that).

The Keeper · December 31 2012, 10:25 PM

It was an estimate, probably including everyone he could remember being spread around at this time in the prime timeline. Remember it's Spock making this estimate so it's likely a very accurate number.

Personally, I think it sounds quite low, probably for the dramatic effect. If a future story requires a population explosion, or reduction, of that number I'd bet they adjust it accordingly without batting an eye.

Franklin · December 31 2012, 10:40 PM

It struck me as ridiculously low, really. It had to be purely for dramatic effect. There are what, over 100 or so Federation planets? If each had one Vulcan embassy or consulate with about 1000 Vulcan staff each (which is probably a low number of staff for a planet-wide embassy), that's 100,000 or more Vulcans off-planet in the diplomatic corps, right there.

Mr. Laser Beam · December 31 2012, 10:50 PM

Spock could never know exactly how many Vulcans were off planet at the time. So there could be millions left that he didn't even know about.

Dale Sams · December 31 2012, 10:57 PM

Different time-line. Vulcans could be even more notoriously xenophobic, or less inclined to exploration. And are the number of Fed worlds mentioned in this timeline?

T'Girl · December 31 2012, 11:24 PM

The number of worlds in the peacekeeping armada was never mentioned.

DEWLine · December 31 2012, 11:38 PM

The 10,000 figure referred to survivors of the homeworld itself. Off-world colonies, outposts, a whole pan-Federation diaspora...these would boost the count. Even Orci and Kurtzmann acknowledged the fact when called on it.

Arpy · January 1 2013, 12:39 AM

It was purposely low a number to bring home the point of him being an endangered species. That there are less than 10,000 Vulcans living off-planet only shows the JJ-verse Vulcans are idiots.

But then so are we. We spend half a penny per tax dollar for everything NASA does yet we live in a time when nuclear, biological, and nano technology might have or may wipe us out not too long from now. Can we all agree on a $.02 tax-hike to quadruple our efforts off this rock?

YARN · January 1 2013, 12:52 AM

Arpy wrote:

It was purposely low a number to bring home the point of him being an endangered species. That there are less than 10,000 Vulcans living off-planet only shows the JJ-verse Vulcans are idiots.

But then so are we. We spend half a penny per tax dollar for everything NASA does yet we live in a time when nuclear, biological, and nano technology might have or may wipe us out not too long from now. Can we all agree on a $.02 tax-hike to quadruple our efforts off this rock?

You sound just like a guy I used to know from the old BSG boards.

NOTE: Shouldn't Spock be the tech guy now? I mean, he is in possession of every major technological, scientific, medical political, sociological, etc. discovery of many years to come.

With his knowledge Starfleet should be immediately redesigning it's ships, starbases, tricorders, etc. Shouldn't this be a great age of non-adventure since Spock already has all the spoilers? With the answers he has, the UFP could easily dominate the Romulans and Klingons for the foreseeable future.

Dale Sams · January 1 2013, 02:33 AM

YARN wrote:

Arpy wrote:

It was purposely low a number to bring home the point of him being an endangered species. That there are less than 10,000 Vulcans living off-planet only shows the JJ-verse Vulcans are idiots.

But then so are we. We spend half a penny per tax dollar for everything NASA does yet we live in a time when nuclear, biological, and nano technology might have or may wipe us out not too long from now. Can we all agree on a $.02 tax-hike to quadruple our efforts off this rock?

You sound just like a guy I used to know from the old BSG boards.

NOTE: Shouldn't Spock be the tech guy now? I mean, he is in possession of every major technological, scientific, medical political, sociological, etc. discovery of many years to come.

With his knowledge Starfleet should be immediately redesigning it's ships, starbases, tricorders, etc. Shouldn't this be a great age of non-adventure since Spock already has all the spoilers? With the answers he has, the UFP could easily dominate the Romulans and Klingons for the foreseeable future.

Spock is too busy trying to remember stuff that happened to him some 140 years ago.

"Ok, gotta send someone to take care of Lazarus...Space Ameoba...Doomsday Machine..."

The Keeper · January 1 2013, 02:40 AM

I read something, somewhere, around here about their intentions to (paraphrased) 'slap a gag order' on Spock against spilling the beans for future events. It may have been something intended for the comics or novels, not sure.

Personally I want the beans spilled, I want those prime timeline events naturalized so the writers cannot use them as cheats thus forcing originality in the new timeline.

*shot of Patrón*

Arpy · January 1 2013, 02:49 AM

Never been to a BSG board, though I loved nBSG.

No bean-spilling. Temporal Prime Directive and all that. Spock would adhere to it even before it was enacted and if he didn't, maybe some timeship would appear and bust skulls.

Actually, that's just the first thing that came to my mind. There'd be no bean-spilling b/c it would change EVERYTHING about the Trek universe. I can just see the Federation president now announcing that with this new intel they'd be restructuring the known galaxy into a new galactic empire...er...peacepire.

Dale Sams · January 1 2013, 03:08 AM

Well he can't just *hope* Kirk et al will be in the right place at the right time to do the right thing.

Also...slapping a gag order makes no sense. Why? So the timeline won't get messed up? You think the Klingons wouldn't take advantage of the situation?

Set Harth · January 1 2013, 06:10 AM

Arpy wrote:

There'd be no bean-spilling b/c it would change EVERYTHING about the Trek universe.

Uh... wasn't that kind of the idea?

December 31 2012, 09:59 PM	#2
lurok Commodore Location: Lost In The EU Expanse	Re: Surviving Vulcan Elders. I just assumed it was survivors of the planet itself. There's still the chicken-eating fun Vulcans out there exploring the cosmos. (ENT is still canon! I do so enjoy writing that).

December 31 2012, 10:25 PM	#3
The Keeper Commodore Location: Where reality ends and illusion begins	Re: Surviving Vulcan Elders. It was an estimate, probably including everyone he could remember being spread around at this time in the prime timeline. Remember it's Spock making this estimate so it's likely a very accurate number. Personally, I think it sounds quite low, probably for the dramatic effect. If a future story requires a population explosion, or reduction, of that number I'd bet they adjust it accordingly without batting an eye.

December 31 2012, 10:40 PM	#4
Franklin Rear Admiral Location: In the bleachers	Re: Surviving Vulcan Elders. It struck me as ridiculously low, really. It had to be purely for dramatic effect. There are what, over 100 or so Federation planets? If each had one Vulcan embassy or consulate with about 1000 Vulcan staff each (which is probably a low number of staff for a planet-wide embassy), that's 100,000 or more Vulcans off-planet in the diplomatic corps, right there. __________________ Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain

December 31 2012, 10:50 PM	#5
Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Location: The visitor's bullpen	Re: Surviving Vulcan Elders. Spock could never know exactly how many Vulcans were off planet at the time. So there could be millions left that he didn't even know about. __________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

December 31 2012, 10:57 PM	#6
Dale Sams Captain	Re: Surviving Vulcan Elders. Different time-line. Vulcans could be even more notoriously xenophobic, or less inclined to exploration. And are the number of Fed worlds mentioned in this timeline?

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December 31 2012, 11:24 PM	#7
T'Girl Vice Admiral	Re: Surviving Vulcan Elders. The number of worlds in the peacekeeping armada was never mentioned.

December 31 2012, 11:38 PM	#8
DEWLine Captain Location: Ottawa, Canada	Re: Surviving Vulcan Elders. The 10,000 figure referred to survivors of the homeworld itself. Off-world colonies, outposts, a whole pan-Federation diaspora...these would boost the count. Even Orci and Kurtzmann acknowledged the fact when called on it. __________________ Yours, Dwight Williams Illustrator/Writer

January 1 2013, 12:39 AM	#9
Arpy Rear Admiral	Re: Surviving Vulcan Elders. It was purposely low a number to bring home the point of him being an endangered species. That there are less than 10,000 Vulcans living off-planet only shows the JJ-verse Vulcans are idiots. But then so are we. We spend half a penny per tax dollar for everything NASA does yet we live in a time when nuclear, biological, and nano technology might have or may wipe us out not too long from now. Can we all agree on a $.02 tax-hike to quadruple our efforts off this rock?

January 1 2013, 02:40 AM	#12
The Keeper Commodore Location: Where reality ends and illusion begins	Re: Surviving Vulcan Elders. I read something, somewhere, around here about their intentions to (paraphrased) 'slap a gag order' on Spock against spilling the beans for future events. It may have been something intended for the comics or novels, not sure. Personally I want the beans spilled, I want those prime timeline events naturalized so the writers cannot use them as cheats thus forcing originality in the new timeline. shot of Patrón

January 1 2013, 02:49 AM	#13
Arpy Rear Admiral	Re: Surviving Vulcan Elders. Never been to a BSG board, though I loved nBSG. No bean-spilling. Temporal Prime Directive and all that. Spock would adhere to it even before it was enacted and if he didn't, maybe some timeship would appear and bust skulls. Actually, that's just the first thing that came to my mind. There'd be no bean-spilling b/c it would change EVERYTHING about the Trek universe. I can just see the Federation president now announcing that with this new intel they'd be restructuring the known galaxy into a new galactic empire...er...peacepire.

January 1 2013, 03:08 AM	#14
Dale Sams Captain	Re: Surviving Vulcan Elders. Well he can't just hope Kirk et al will be in the right place at the right time to do the right thing. Also...slapping a gag order makes no sense. Why? So the timeline won't get messed up? You think the Klingons wouldn't take advantage of the situation?