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Old December 29 2012, 07:40 PM   #436
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

The "if we restrict or outlaw something only criminals will get it" argument wears incredibly thin after a while. We're not talking about Prohibition-era alcoholic beverages or modern day narcotics where most of the danger to the human being is to themselves by abusing the substances.

Guns aren't booze and they aren't weed. They can kill dozens of innocent people in a matter of seconds and the corollary that if we ban high-capacity clips, magazines and ammunition drums or assault weapons that "only the criminals will have them and then things will only get much worse" is palpable crap.

Even Larry Pratt of the gun lobby admitted that gun crimes with outlawed weapons fell by a full two-thirds in the immediate aftermath of the passage of the Assault Weapons Ban in the '90s (though I don't think he really meant to admit that on television in front of an audience of was a rare slip-up from one of the "arm everybody and sell more guns" crowd).

The "only criminals will have this-or-that" counterargument is just a tactic used to try to stop the debate and it does work with some people who are more prone to just give up and feel there's no point and that nothing concrete will ever get done.
Human instinct is pretty strong. You can't expect us to change overnight.

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Old December 29 2012, 10:23 PM   #437
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

So this guy who started a fire to lure the firemen over, then shot them because he "likes to kill people" got his guns through a now-arrested neighbor. She KNEW he was not allowed to buy guns, so she bought them, signed the forms that they were for HER, and promptly delivered them over to this asshole.

Laws allowing the sale of such guns will not stop the wrong people from getting them. Laws disallowing the sale of such guns MAY at least make it that much harder. I think most people can understand those who wish/need to hunt or protect themselves or peacefully collect (with adequate security measures).

It's the weapons which cannot really be used for hunting or self-protection which should be controlled/regulated/banned/monitored/pick-one. I mean, who would fire 10 shots in 1 minute into a damn deer and then eat the deer? Such guns are not used for hunting and usually are less useful for protection.
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Old December 30 2012, 08:29 PM   #438
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Machine guns are largely banned, except for some pre-ban guns that are heavily regulated and registered. Now, when's the last time anyone here read a story where a bad guy used a fully-auto machine gun to commit a crime or a massacre?

So the mantra of "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" would seem to be disproven using that example, now wouldn't it? We banned machine guns...and criminals no longer had a supply of machine guns in civilian hands to draw from (either through theft or straw purchase). Fancy that.
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Old December 30 2012, 09:38 PM   #439
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Gun Proponents wrote:
Criminals will always be able to get guns.
Criminals will also always be able to get explosives, or even create them themselves. And if they can't create them themselves, they use airplanes. Is that the reason and excuse to legalize explosives and make them available for the average Joe? Perhaps at Walmart?
Tannerite is a legal binary explosive you can purchess straight from the manufacture, no special requirements.

For anything else, you need to get an FEL, link.
Not all who wander, are lost.

I have become death, destroyer of worlds.
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Old December 31 2012, 11:52 PM   #440
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

E-DUB wrote: View Post

There has also been talk here of allowing people with guns into libraries, libraries for crying out loud. No word on if the library could at least mandate use of a silencer.
You wouldn't happen to live in Arizona, would you? There is or was a bill before the legislature here earlier this year that would have allowed people with concealed carry permits to carry their guns into public buildings (including libraries), schools, and bars.

Strangely, there has not been any mention of this bill in the last couple of weeks....
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