Does nu-Trek exclude Enterprise too? - Page 2

Balrog · December 30 2012, 05:08 PM

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote:

Yeah, but "In a Mirror, Darkly" and "These are the Voyages" corfirms Star Trek: Enterprise's place in Trek Prime's history books, too. They cannot be ignored.

ENT was from a more similar timeline to the prime TOS universe, but different enough in key events that led to this completely alternate reality in ST09.

King Daniel · December 30 2012, 05:17 PM

Then why are details of the NX-01's missions in the USS Defiant's logs (lost in TOS: "The Tholian Web") in "In a Mirror, Darkly"? If ENT were from the nuTrek timeline only, the Defiant would have looked like the 2009 ship and TNG in "These are the Voyages" would have been completely unrecognizable.

Plus, Seven of Nine mentioned the Borg's attempt to stop First Contact a couple of times in Voyager. Retcons and coninuity errors aside, it's all supposed to be the same timeline.

Balrog · December 30 2012, 05:50 PM

Three timelines:

TOS prime timeline

TOS timeline affected by events of FC (creating ENT)

ST09 alternate timeline affected by events of ENT

Relayer1 · December 30 2012, 06:15 PM

There's certainly some cross contamination between timelines - not only Spock Prime, but isn't Data's head buried somewhere in San Francisco ?

Would such entanglement (especially if Data's head is discovered and activated) lead to the two timelines to reconverge sometime in the future ?

And if so, what happens to Vulcan/Romulus ?

Mr. Laser Beam · December 30 2012, 07:22 PM

Jingle Balrog wrote:

TOS timeline affected by events of FC (creating ENT)

There is no such timeline. ENT was always part of the timeline, even in TOS. There was never a timeline where it was not.

As for FC, it was a predestination paradox. It, like ENT, was always supposed to happen.

Dukhat · December 30 2012, 07:54 PM

Jingle Balrog wrote:

Three timelines:

TOS prime timeline

TOS timeline affected by events of FC (creating ENT)

ST09 alternate timeline affected by events of ENT

There are actually far, far more timelines in Star Trek than just these three. So where does one draw the line?

The Mirrorball Man · December 30 2012, 08:04 PM

Dukhat wrote:

There are actually far, far more timelines in Star Trek than just these three. So where does one draw the line?

"HERE! NO FURTHER!"

Lance · December 30 2012, 08:08 PM

Am I misremembering, or is the first scene where Seven mentions the Borg incursion in VOY played as if the other characters have no idea what she's talking about? Could it be that Seven has got 'race memories' of the Borg incursion timeline, which none of the Starfleet personel recognise because they're all still part of an older order of things, pre-timeline change?

I've always thought it significant that nobody in the Prime universe ever mentioned the NX-01 or any of her crew until Nemesis came along. Almost as if it hadn't existed at all...

Donald Draper · December 30 2012, 08:24 PM

Its fiction. Whatever the writers say is included is included. Especially more true when we are talking time travel and its "logic".

M'Sharak · December 30 2012, 08:49 PM

The Mirrorball Man wrote:

New Trek doesn't really exclude or invalidate anything.

Ding!

Donald Draper · December 30 2012, 08:55 PM

I been thinking of posting this someplace I guess it fits in this thread.

Fictional Continuity is an illusion. A magic trick. If you look at it from a certain angle it seems believable. But any rational person knows that the illusionist is not realy floating on the stage, etc. Its fake. Its a facade. Of course if you start analyzing closely it like its real life its going to look phoney. Because it always has been phoney. Not just Time Travel but Star Trek in general.

Balrog · December 30 2012, 09:16 PM

Dukhat wrote:

Jingle Balrog wrote:

Three timelines:

TOS prime timeline

TOS timeline affected by events of FC (creating ENT)

ST09 alternate timeline affected by events of ENT

There are actually far, far more timelines in Star Trek than just these three. So where does one draw the line?

One doesn't, I suppose.

I agree that there are infinitely more timelines. What is the Mirror Universe but an alternate timeline.

Awesome Possum · December 30 2012, 09:27 PM

Remember the MST3K mantra, "Repeat to yourself it's just a show, I really should relax."

Based on the Admiral Archer line, NX-01 was in their past and Archer apparently lived to see the 1701 launched. So that was probably him who lost his prized beagle. Poor guy.

King Daniel · December 30 2012, 11:18 PM

Donald Draper wrote:

Fictional Continuity is an illusion.

A comforting lie told to protect you.

Donald Draper · December 31 2012, 12:37 AM

My point is that not a bad thing. This is fiction not archaeology. People are entitled to dislike inconsistencies. But they are probably ignoring them in something else they do like.

December 30 2012, 05:17 PM	#17
King Daniel Admiral Location: KingDaniel has fallen Into Darkness (in England)	Re: Does nu-Trek exclude Enterprise too? Then why are details of the NX-01's missions in the USS Defiant's logs (lost in TOS: "The Tholian Web") in "In a Mirror, Darkly"? If ENT were from the nuTrek timeline only, the Defiant would have looked like the 2009 ship and TNG in "These are the Voyages" would have been completely unrecognizable. Plus, Seven of Nine mentioned the Borg's attempt to stop First Contact a couple of times in Voyager. Retcons and coninuity errors aside, it's all supposed to be the same timeline. __________________ Star Trek Imponderables, fun video mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors. Episode One Episode Two

December 30 2012, 05:50 PM	#18
Balrog Commodore Location: Moria	Re: Does nu-Trek exclude Enterprise too? Three timelines: TOS prime timeline TOS timeline affected by events of FC (creating ENT) ST09 alternate timeline affected by events of ENT __________________ Anybody got a breath mint?

December 30 2012, 06:15 PM	#19
Relayer1 Fleet Captain Location: The Black Country, England	Re: Does nu-Trek exclude Enterprise too? There's certainly some cross contamination between timelines - not only Spock Prime, but isn't Data's head buried somewhere in San Francisco ? Would such entanglement (especially if Data's head is discovered and activated) lead to the two timelines to reconverge sometime in the future ? And if so, what happens to Vulcan/Romulus ? __________________ Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...

December 30 2012, 08:08 PM	#23
Lance Captain Location: The Enterprise's Restroom	Re: Does nu-Trek exclude Enterprise too? Am I misremembering, or is the first scene where Seven mentions the Borg incursion in VOY played as if the other characters have no idea what she's talking about? Could it be that Seven has got 'race memories' of the Borg incursion timeline, which none of the Starfleet personel recognise because they're all still part of an older order of things, pre-timeline change? I've always thought it significant that nobody in the Prime universe ever mentioned the NX-01 or any of her crew until Nemesis came along. Almost as if it hadn't existed at all...

December 30 2012, 08:24 PM	#24
Donald Draper Fleet Captain	Re: Does nu-Trek exclude Enterprise too? Its fiction. Whatever the writers say is included is included. Especially more true when we are talking time travel and its "logic".

STAR TREK

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ABOUT US

December 30 2012, 08:55 PM	#26
Donald Draper Fleet Captain	Re: Does nu-Trek exclude Enterprise too? I been thinking of posting this someplace I guess it fits in this thread. Fictional Continuity is an illusion. A magic trick. If you look at it from a certain angle it seems believable. But any rational person knows that the illusionist is not realy floating on the stage, etc. Its fake. Its a facade. Of course if you start analyzing closely it like its real life its going to look phoney. Because it always has been phoney. Not just Time Travel but Star Trek in general.

December 30 2012, 09:27 PM	#28
Awesome Possum Herald of the Ponies Location: Jewel HQ	Re: Does nu-Trek exclude Enterprise too? Remember the MST3K mantra, "Repeat to yourself it's just a show, I really should relax." Based on the Admiral Archer line, NX-01 was in their past and Archer apparently lived to see the 1701 launched. So that was probably him who lost his prized beagle. Poor guy. __________________ I am at heart a propagandist, a tremendous hater, a tiresome nag, complacently positive that there is no human problem which could not be solved if people would simply do as I advise. -Gore Vidal

December 31 2012, 12:37 AM	#30
Donald Draper Fleet Captain	Re: Does nu-Trek exclude Enterprise too? My point is that not a bad thing. This is fiction not archaeology. People are entitled to dislike inconsistencies. But they are probably ignoring them in something else they do like.