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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old December 30 2012, 01:47 PM   #61
Lynx
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
but it would have been grand if it was sexual, and the TPTB were so ignorant about the potential that they left the "possibility" wide open.

Another theory I heard/invented is that Sam didn't like Naomi much because she resented that fact that this changeling (shut up) was a timespace splitted (splat?) widget and not her actual daughter who is probably on ice in a shoe box sized coffin in sick bay.

Her daughter died.

What ever this creature was, sooner or later it was going to go bad.
And who would be better to ease the tension than Our Morale Officer!

Besides that, it's not sure that Samantha rejected Naomi. Her absence may have had more to do with her being occupied with work in the Torpedo and Shuttlebuilding Team. Take also into consideration that we had a Duplicate Kim who was accepted by everybody.

Personally I wish that they would have kept the Duplicate Kes too!
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Old December 30 2012, 08:05 PM   #62
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

I didn't get the impression Sam was a negligent mother. I did get the impression the producers didn't want to pay her actress every time they wanted a cute kid in their story.

There is all this time Naomi is just wandering around the ship. Sam probably has an 8 hour duty shift, and she can't lock Naomi in her room all that time, especially since she knows every single person on the ship will look out for her.

I liked the ending of that episode. I didn't see it as coming off as Star Trek preachiness, I saw it as a good way to represent the world's pluralism.
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Old December 31 2012, 12:14 AM   #63
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Lynx wrote: View Post

Personally I wish that they would have kept the Duplicate Kes too!
You are so greedy!

But hey, we should have 2 Kes's AND we should keep Admiral Janeway and Captain Janeway.
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Old December 31 2012, 12:32 AM   #64
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Then they would have gone to war to see who could break up the Indian and the Borgette.
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Old December 31 2012, 12:36 AM   #65
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Now that we have two Janeway's the J/7, J/C dilemma is finally over. One for each, everybody is happy.
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Old December 31 2012, 12:41 AM   #66
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

The old one is flabby and the young one is comparatively an idiot.
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Old December 31 2012, 12:45 AM   #67
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

7 is not an idiot!!
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Old December 31 2012, 02:24 AM   #68
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Compare yourself now to yourself 30 years ago.

Admiral Janeway is flabby, and Captain Janeway is not as smart as Admiral Janeway.
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Old December 31 2012, 03:53 AM   #69
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I didn't get the impression Sam was a negligent mother. I did get the impression the producers didn't want to pay her actress every time they wanted a cute kid in their story.
Actually the actress that played Sam Wildman was branching out her career from TV actress to TV writer during the time. She was writing and developing her own TV show, which paid off. She was the head writer and creator of the series "My Boys" about a woman sports writer who all her friends were men.
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Old December 31 2012, 04:00 AM   #70
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Compare yourself now to yourself 30 years ago.

Admiral Janeway is flabby, and Captain Janeway is not as smart as Admiral Janeway.
I found Capt. Janeway smarter than Admiral Janeway.
Adm. Janeway would have created a diplomatic incident by stealing from the Klingons, lying to Starfleet and probably filing a false flight log, too name a few. How was she smart if she would have cause hostilities between two allied governments just to save one ship and a few people?
How was she smart crippling the Borg, so that when they regrouped(and they will regroup) we'd be public enemy number one?
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Old December 31 2012, 04:09 AM   #71
Guy Gardener
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

None of the people in the future count because they were already dead.

They were dead or she failed, and she wasn't going to fail.

Alternately some more of her crew, including Seven, didn't die, as soon as she made up her mind and they re-died the second she chose to relent.

We have no fate but what we make.
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Old December 31 2012, 04:21 AM   #72
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
None of the people in the future count because they were already dead.

They were dead or she failed, and she wasn't going to fail.

Alternately some more of her crew, including Seven, didn't die, as soon as she made up her mind and they re-died the second she chose to relent.

We have no fate but what we make.
I don't understand how that still makes Adm. Janeway smarter?
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Old December 31 2012, 04:29 AM   #73
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

So Admiral Janeway travels to the past.

Gives Captain Janeway the godmode version of Voyager.

Janeway uses godmode to kill the Borg and get home.

So isn't there no future Janeway to give them godmode and that equates to a reset button since that Admiral Janeway doesn't exist?
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Old December 31 2012, 04:34 AM   #74
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Unless she has dementia or something like Dementia, it would be hard for Admiral Janeway not to be 30 years more worldly or knowledgeable than her junior counterpart, or are you only counting IQ towards the definition of "smart"?

No offence intended, you're wonderful, and you probably have the same-ish IQ as your 20 year old self, but face facts, if you met your 20 year old self you'd slap him for all the shit he's put you through.
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Old December 31 2012, 04:39 AM   #75
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Star Grinch wrote: View Post
So Admiral Janeway travels to the past.

Gives Captain Janeway the godmode version of Voyager.

Janeway uses godmode to kill the Borg and get home.

So isn't there no future Janeway to give them godmode and that equates to a reset button since that Admiral Janeway doesn't exist?
She left the universe to travel through time which divorces this woman from her own continuity, which is the rules we were taught in Year of Hell and Futures End, and even City at the Edge of Forever where Kirk was temporally shielded by the Guardian.
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