Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Continuing down the path set by Nemesis is not "evolution" in any positive sense of the word.

Look, the audience voted with their wallets and their TV remotes, and declared oldTrek to be over. That's just the truth.

[Nerys Myk]

DalekJim wrote:

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Eh, it wouldn't be directly tied to Nemesis or anything. I just want something set 100 years after the TNG/DS9/VOY era. It'd essentially be a reboot as the world would have to be re-introduced to fans and casuals alike.

That would just be TNG redux. All TNG did was peal the labels off of TOS and put them on different bottles and then change the dates. Why use the knock off when you can use the originals?

[teacake]

DalekJim wrote:

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Eh, it wouldn't be directly tied to Nemesis or anything. I just want something set 100 years after the TNG/DS9/VOY era. It'd essentially be a reboot as the world would have to be re-introduced to fans and casuals alike.

That would be great but not anywhere near as marketable to the public. I would prefer it, but I'm not the public.

[DalekJim]

Well, I don't care about the public and more importantly, they don't care about Star Trek. I'd be fine with Star Trek being a modest string of good movies that made alright money than a series of mediocre action films that made loads of money.

Santa Kang wrote:

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All TNG did was peal the labels off of TOS and put them on different bottles and then change the dates.

Strongly disagree. TOS and TNG are very, very different shows. Both excellent though.

[UFO]

Santa Kang wrote:

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There's a difference between the eleventh movie in a series and the first. Kirk and Spock's marquee value was built up over decades. To many people they are synonymous with Star Trek. If this was the first Star Trek movie ever made, with no TV series proceeding it, you might have a point.

Marquee value with who? If they are synonymous with Star Trek, is that good, or just something else the marketing department had to overcome? Personally I think he has point anyway.

BillJ wrote:

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Simply not enough people care what happens after Nemesis to make it worth the studios while. That's why those stories have been relegated to the novels.

And they won't care until you show them stories and people they can or want to care about, just like any other movie or TV show etc. Even marquee value will only take you so far.

DalekJim wrote:

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... I just want something set 100 years after the TNG/DS9/VOY era. It'd essentially be a reboot as the world would have to be re-introduced to fans and casuals alike.

That would probably have worked just as well, given the same treatment.

My Name Is Legion wrote:

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Continuing down the path set by Nemesis is not "evolution" in any positive sense of the word.

Look, the audience voted with their wallets and their TV remotes, and declared oldTrek to be over. That's just the truth.

No-one declared anything to be over. They just didn't like the more recent versions of it. But give it the same styling as ST09, with more (well some) substance and there is no reason to believe you wouldn't be good to go. Hell people like you would probably hail it's success and criticise any suggestion of a reboot with those TOS has-beens!

Santa Kang wrote:

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That would just be TNG redux. All TNG did was peal the labels off of TOS and put them on different bottles and then change the dates. Why use the knock off when you can use the originals?

So instead of doing TNG, they should have just remade TOS, back in the day? What I think is being suggested is it would be a Trek for our time, as presumably TNG was when it came out.

[Greg Cox]

DalekJim wrote:

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Well, I don't care about the public and more importantly, they don't care about Star Trek.

Gotta disagree with you there. STAR TREK was never meant to be an exclusive, elitist club meant only for the true believers. The idea is not to write off the rest of the world, especially since the world is full of people with a casual interest in Trek, who enjoy an occasional episode or movie (or novel), but may not know it backwards and forward like we do.

And you know what? That's fine. The "public" has just as much right to a fun STAR TREK movie as we do. STAR TREK doesn't just belong to us Trekkies, nor should the movies and TV shows cater to us exclusively.

STAR TREK deserves the biggest audience possible.

[DalekJim]

Greg Cox wrote:

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STAR TREK deserves the biggest audience possible.

I believe that the more you dumb Star Trek down for the widest audience possible then the less it actually resembles Star Trek. The general public don't really like sci-fi or fantasy all that much. They LOVE mindless action though and to appease the public, the films will focus on that instead of what I like. I don't want dune buggy chases or lens flare. I'd be satisfied with the Enterprise going to a new world and making first contact with an interesting new alien culture.

Star Trek is a huge franchise with fans that want different things so there will undoubtedly be those that can look at the Into Darkness trailer and feel satisfied. I am not one of those people though, and think it's a sad state of affairs when a Star Trek trailer resembles one for a superhero or Transformers movie.

Just my opinion, yo.

[teacake]

I'm not exactly missing the meetings. Didn't they have an overhead projector in VI?

"Now you see here Praxis.."

[DalekJim]

teacake wrote:

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I'm not exactly missing the meetings.

I honestly find meetings and hearings more entertaining than the action scenes in Trek. Hence why I'm always suspicious if somebody thinks the movie First Contact is entertaining while the show's episode The Measure of a Man is boring.

[Nerys Myk]

UFO wrote:

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Marquee value with who? If they are synonymous with Star Trek, is that good, or just something else the marketing department had to overcome? Personally I think he has point anyway

.

People who go to the movies. From a marketing standpoint Kirk and Spock are a safer bet than Picard and Data, Sisko and Kira, Janeway and Seven or Archer and T'Pol.

Not really. Star Wars and Luke were unknown in 1977. Folks went in no knowlege of either one. Star Trek has been around for decades and is part of our culture. Even if people call him Dr. Spock, they have a vague idea who Spock is.

And they won't care until you show them stories and people they can or want to care about, just like any other movie or TV show etc. Even marquee value will only take you so far.

And positive reviews and buzz will take you the rest of the way.

UFO wrote:

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So instead of doing TNG, they should have just remade TOS, back in the day? What I think is being suggested is it would be a Trek for our time, as presumably TNG was when it came out.

Yeah actually they should have, but I doubt the movie folks would have gone for that

What would make it a "Trek for our time"? Any show would reflect the time in which it is made. A rebooted TOS made in the 80/90 is not going to be a copy of the 60s version any more the ST09 was.

DalekJim wrote:

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Strongly disagree. TOS and TNG are very, very different shows. Both excellent though.

You can still see the TOS DNA in TNG. Saying its 100 years in the future and throwing a Klingon on the bridge isn't much of a difference. It was in many ways Phase II with some name changes. And Phase II was a continuation of TOS.

The differences are mainly from the times they were produced.

[Greg Cox]

Well, to be fair, movie trailers are always going to play up the action and eye candy instead of the more quiet, contemplative scenes. There has never been an earnest discussion of the Prime Directive in a STAR TREK movie trailer and there never will never be.

Go back at look at the original trailer for THE WRATH OF KHAN. It's all spaceship battles and special effects. "At the end of the universe lies the beginning of . . . vengeance!"

And action has always been part of Star Trek. As I've pointed out before, even "The Cage" has Pike fighting a giant furry barbarian and blasting a hole in his cage with his laser pistol. And the other Trek pilot ended with Kirk in a fist-fight with Gary Mitchell . . . .

The best Trek combines ideas and action and emotion and drama . . . and a healthy dose of fun. It should be smart pop entertainment aimed at everybody, not just us diehard cultists.

[Nerys Myk]

Greg Cox wrote:

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Well, to be fair, movie trailers are always going to play up the action and eye candy instead of the more quiet, contemplative scenes. There has never been an earnest discussion of the Prime Directive in a STAR TREK movie trailer and there never will never be.

Go back at look at the original trailer for THE WRATH OF KHAN. It's all spaceship battles and special effects. "At the end of the universe likes the beginning of . . . vengeance!"

And action has always been part of Star Trek. As I've pointed out before, even "The Cage" has Pike fighting a giant furry barbarian and blasting a hole in his cage with his laser pistol. And the other Trek pilot ended with Kirk in a fist-fight with Gary Mitchell . . . .

The best Trek combines ideas and action and emotion and drama . . . and a healthy dose of fun. It's smart pop entertainment aimed at everybody, not just us hardcore cultists.

Preach it brother!!!!

[R. Star]

DalekJim wrote:

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Eh, it wouldn't be directly tied to Nemesis or anything. I just want something set 100 years after the TNG/DS9/VOY era. It'd essentially be a reboot as the world would have to be re-introduced to fans and casuals alike.

Agreed, that would've been much more interesting than just reshuffling the old deck of cards with some flashy action sequences.

[Greg Cox]

DalekJim wrote:

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I honestly find meetings and hearings more entertaining than the action scenes in Trek. Hence why I'm always suspicious if somebody thinks the movie First Contact is entertaining while the show's episode The Measure of a Man is boring.

Would you believe me if I told you that I'm actually a big fan of both "Measure" and First Contact? Indeed, to my mind, "Measure of a Man" was the first really good TNG ep, just as First Contact is far and away the best of the TNG movies.

One of the great things about Trek (and TOS in particular) is that the format was big enough to allow for all kinds of different stories: courtroom dramas, murder mysteries, war stories, trippy scifi mind-benders, morality plays, love stories, even the occasional farce.

[Nerys Myk]

Greg Cox wrote:

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Would you believe me if I told you that I'm actually a big fan of both "Measure" and First Contact? Indeed, to my mind, "Measure of a Man" was the first really good TNG ep, just as First Contact is far and away the best of the TNG movies.

One of the great things about Trek (and TOS in particular) is that the format was big enough to allow for all kinds of different stories: courtroom dramas, murder mysteries, war stories, trippy scifi mind-benders, morality plays, love stories, even the occasional farce.

I like the TOS season one meetings best. Coffee cups on the table. People looking like they've been there awhile.