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TrekToday http://www.trektoday.com/content Daily Star Trek news Sun, 02 Aug 2015 16:53:37 +0000 en-US hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3 Retro Review: Learning Curve http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:16:02 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41256 Tuvok attempts to train four Maquis crewmembers who are having difficulty following Starfleet protocols.

Plot Summary: Lieutenant Dalby discovers a malfunctioning bio-neural gel pack and replaces it without getting authorization, which causes several systems ship-wide to stop working. Tuvok expresses concern to Janeway that Dalby and some other Maquis crewmembers are not trained or disciplined enough to work on a Starfleet vessel. Though Janeway is more worried about the possibility of multiple gel pack failures disabling Voyager’s systems, she recommends an on-the-job training course for the crewmembers having the greatest difficulties. Chakotay gives onetime Starfleet Academy instructor Tuvok a list of possible candidates, from which Tuvok selects four junior officers – impulsive Dalby, belligerent Henley, unfocused Chell, and bitter Gerron – who deeply resent being singled out for extra attention. The group complains when Tuvok insists that they remove all traces of their personal style from their professional demeanor and marches out after what they consider to be an unfair physical exercise. Neelix offers Tuvok some wisdom about plant stalks needing to be flexible, which Tuvok at first takes to mean that the young crewmembers are too rigid, then discovers that Neelix means to criticize himself and his teaching methods. He tries to get to know Dalby and realizes that some of the Maquis crewmembers suffered traumas that make it impossible for them to become contented, well-adjusted Starfleet officers overnight. Meanwhile, the Doctor discovers that Neelix’s attempt to make cheese has cultivated a bacteria that now infects the gel packs. The Doctor proposes raising the temperature to help the gel packs fight off the infection, but although the gel packs are saved, Tuvok and his unhappy team become trapped in a cargo bay where Gerron is injured. Dalby becomes irate when Tuvok orders him to get to safety with Henley and Chell, but when Tuvok himself violates procedure, risking his life to save Gerron, the Maquis officers are impressed and promise to work harder to obey the rules.

Analysis: I didn’t like “Learning Curve” when it first aired for its obnoxious attitude toward Maquis dissidents and indeed toward anyone who refused to assimilate entirely into Starfleet’s arbitrary regulations, which I thought at the time might just reflect my lack of understanding of how military protocols worked. But it rubs me the wrong way even more so now that we’ve seen some of the history of Vulcan intolerance in Enterprise, and now that we know the Maquis will be asked to give up their sense of belonging to their own cultures as well as their identities as members of an organization in conflict with Starfleet (the latter a demand that’s completely justified on a mission like Voyager’s, though I note that Worf was allowed to wear the accoutrements of a Klingon warrior on duty even when the Klingons were at war with the Federation). Of course it’s a problem that many of the Maquis have not had Starfleet training in teamwork, physical fitness, even self-protection, though I might note that Neelix and Kes haven’t either. It would seem both reasonable and fair for Tuvok to include them in a course to get underprepared crewmembers ready for life traveling through the Delta Quadrant, particularly since Kes had never left her village, let alone her homeworld, until just before Voyager arrived. The cheese incident that almost destroys the bio-neural gel packs is a far more heinous betrayal of safety protocols than the replacement of one of those gel packs, even if Dalby is rude when reprimanded while Neelix only stammers in embarrassment. And surely there are Starfleet crewmembers as well as Maquis who were unprepared to have a brief mission into the Badlands turn into a potentially lifelong journey? Couldn’t many of the junior officers use a refresher course in focus and teamwork? If Janeway and Chakotay’s goal is to get their two crews functioning as a single unit with the same ease with which Torres now works with Carey, they’d be well advised to include some Starfleet officers in the remedial class even just for show. Not so long ago, Tom Paris was a criminal and Torres was punching fellow officers, while now they’re fourth and fifth in the command chain; seems like a lot of people on that ship could use a bit of extra attention.

And although Tuvok may have been an Academy instructor for more than a decade, he seems like the wrong person to be leading an exercise in new-to-Starfleet teamwork. These angry, demoralized Maquis crewmembers need a counselor, not a disciplinarian; the morale officer might do them more good, and indeed does them more good when he lectures Tuvok, than a stern Vulcan whom they consider a traitor to their cause. I think it’s a mistake that we see the senior officers’ point of view rather than that of the recruits, since we don’t get to learn the positive independent-minded aspects of what Chakotay dismisses as “the Maquis way.” A strong left hook may get someone hauled before a disciplinary committee in Starfleet, but we’ve had such behavior by the Klingons rammed down our throats for years now as something we should admire, so it just doesn’t look particularly outrageous when a Maquis crewmember does precisely what a Klingon would do in a similar situation of being singled out for his temper. Apart from Dalby, who joined the Maquis because Cardassians brutalized his girlfriend, we never get to know the Maquis crewmembers, and the more Tuvok talks, the more arrogant he seems, like the obnoxious Vulcans of “Take Me Out to the Holosuite” rather than thoughtful, nuanced individuals like Spock and Sarek. Now that the US military and other such organizations have relaxed their rules about whether and when soldiers can wear yarmulkes, hijabs, and other items directly related to the practice of religion, I feel even more justified in my fury against Tuvok when he orders Gerron to take off his Bajoran earring – an accessory quite different from the headband that Tuvok forbids Henley to wear. The Bajoran earring is a symbol of faith. It’s also a mark of one’s family and social caste, two things that the young Gerron has lost being stranded 70,000 light years from home. Whether he had lost those already in a traumatic incident that led him to join the Maquis, as Dalby seems to believe, or whether he joined the Maquis out of sympathy for the settlers’ desire to protect their homes, like Kasidy Yates, Gerron is clearly clinging to this one meaningful relic of his former life, which Tuvok orders him to put away without any care for its significance.

Clearly, Tuvok is obsessed with the letter of the law rather than its spirit – he’s closer to being Javert from Les Miserables than was Sisko when Eddington mocked him with that sobriquet – but given the pettiness of the Vulcans we saw in many TNG and DS9 episodes, I gather we’re supposed to assume that it’s because Tuvok’s a Vulcan, for whom logic demands holding even to the most trivial of regulations. But I can’t understand why Chakotay agrees to let someone whom he thought served his own cause, then turned out to have been working behind his back all along, serve as corrections officer for other Maquis crewmembers. Chakotay’s facial tattoo would not be permitted even in the current US military, and I’d love to hear his response if Tuvok ordered him to remove it or cover it up. He’s usually a champion of diversity and broadmindedness, yet he seems amused at the thought of having four shipmates for whom he was once responsible, who are as troubled as they are troubling, put under Tuvok’s yoke. Of course ship-wide discipline is important in a crisis, as we see when it takes much of the crew working together to solve the problem with the gel packs, but a rigid dress code for people who will be working together for many years can hardly be the element that makes them see themselves as a team. It will be acknowledging, understanding, accepting, and taking advantage of their differences which will accomplish that. If the Starfleet uniform serves to bond Voyager’s crew in early days, it later serves to homogenize them; no wonder Sisko preferred spending his off-duty hours in African dress and Kira never stopped wearing her Bajoran earring even when in Starfleet uniform. “Learning Curve” fails in its effort to be “Lower Decks” because it fears to let us get to know and admire the quirks of the individual Maquis, erasing their distinct histories and grievances even as Janeway’s off playing traditional British governess in a traditional British novel knockoff. She needs to spend more time thinking about exactly which aspects of the Federation she plans to keep thriving on her ship as it creeps toward home.

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Star Trek: The Exhibition In Washington State http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 19:00:37 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41252 Star Trek: The Exhibition will be arriving at the Washington State Fair in September.

The Washington State Fair will take place September 11-27 in Puyallup.

Star Trek: The Exhibition, under license by CBS Consumer Products, will run for seventeen days and gives visitors the opportunity to enjoy an interactive, museum-style experience of one of the largest collections of authentic Star Trek artifacts and information ever put on public display. This is a separate ticketed exhibit, and requires Fair admission. Exhibit tickets can be purchased in advance for $6.50 until Sept 10 here, or $8 at the State Fair. Children five years and under are free in the exhibit with a paid adult. Online orders are subject to standard processing fees.

The Exhibition brings visitors into the Star Trek universe and allows them to connect with iconic Star Trek moments. Throughout this experience, visitors, especially younger visitors and youth, will be inspired and motivated to seek out more education, and perhaps ignite a passion for lifelong learning and careers in science and technology.

Star Trek fans and novices alike will have a first-hand interactive experience to explore the worlds, wisdom, science, stories, cultures, characters, fashions and fantasies of the Star Trek universe. In the States, and around the world, Star Trek has become a sub-culture for many, supported by countless fan conventions and fan gatherings where many regularly gather and role-play in their favorite Star Trek characters.

“Among the main attractions of The Exhibition is the opportunity to sit in the legendary Captain’s chair where Captain Kirk and subsequently Captain Picard took command of the U.S.S. Enterprise; the opportunity to pose in front of a replica of the U.S.S. Enterprise; and one-of-a-kind displays, interactive kiosks and rare photo opportunities.”

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August-September 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:53:51 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41248 There will be nineteen conventions, shows or appearances in August and September that will feature actors of interest to Star Trek fans.

This listing of conventions and shows features actors from all of the televised series and several of the Star Trek movies.

August begins with The Official Star Trek Convention will be held Aug. 6-9 at the Rio Suites Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. In attendance at The Official Star Trek Convention will be Marc Alaimo, Vaughn Armstrong, Richard Arnold, Rene Auberjonois, Robert Beltran, Casey Biggs, John Billingsley, Brannon Braga, Bobby Clark, Joan Collins, Jeffrey Combs, Denise Crosby, Olivia d’Abo, Michael Dante, James Darren, Roxanne Dawson, Nicole de Boer, John de Lancie, Elizabeth Dennehy (Commander Shelby), Chris Doohan, Michael Dorn, Doug Drexler, Aron Eisenberg, Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Bryan Fuller, Joseph Gatt, Max Grodenchik, Richard Herd, J.G. Hertzler, Jennifer Hetrick (Vash), Manu Intiraymi, Sherry Jackson, Salome Jens, Dominic Keating, Walter Koenig, Alice Krige, Cirroc Lofton, Don Marshall, Chase Masterson, Robert Duncan McNeill, Anthony Montgomery, Ronald B. Moore, Kate Mulgrew, Larry Nemecek, Adam Nimoy, Denise Okuda, Mike Okuda, Robert O’Reilly, Linda Park, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, Andrew Robinson, Rod Roddenberry, David L. Ross (Lt. Galloway and Lt. Johnson), Saul Rubinek, Tim Russ, Jeri Ryan, Judson Scott (Joachim from The Wrath of Khan), William Shatner, Mark Allen Shepherd (Morn), William Morgan Sheppard, Armin Shimerman, Alexander Siddig, Marina Sirtis, Rick Sternbach, Sir Patrick Stewart, Kitty Swink, George Takei, Connor Trinneer, Karl Urban, Nana Visitor, Garrett Wang, and Michael Westmore.

Next up is Shore Leave, to be held Aug. 7-9 at the Baltimore Hunt Valley Inn in Hunt Valley, Maryland. In attendance at Shore Leave will be Daniel Davis (Professor James Moriarty).

The Steel City Con will be held Aug. 7-9 at the Monroeville Convention Center in Monroeville, Pennsylvania. In attendance at Steel City Con will be Nichelle Nichols.

The Dublin Comic Con will be held Aug. 8-9 at the Convention Centre Dublin in Dublin, Ireland. In attendance at Dublin Comic Con will be Gates McFadden.

The Windsor ComiCon will be held Aug. 15-16 at the Caesars Windsor in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Windsor ComiCon will be Marina Sirtis.

Crypticon Kansas City will take place Aug. 21-23 at the Howard Johnson Plaza in Kansas City, Missouri. In attendance at Crypticon Kansas City will be Sid Haig, Chris Sarandon, and Tony Todd.

Walker Stalker Con will be held Aug. 22-23 at the Westin Waterfront in Boston, Massachusetts. In attendance at Walker Stalker Con will be Denise Crosby.

The Central Coast Comic Con will take place Aug. 28-30 at the Ventura County Fairgrounds in Ventura, California. In attendance at Central Coast Comic Con will be Sid Haig (Lawgiver in Return of the Archons) and Deep Roy.

Wrapping up August will be the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con, to be held Aug. 29-30 at the Bournemouth International Centre in Bournemouth, England. In attendance at the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con will be Max Grodenchik.

September begins with Fan Expo Canada, which will be held Sept. 3-6 at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Fan Expo Canada will be Jeffrey Combs, Malcolm McDowell, Jennifer Morrison, Kate Mulgrew, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, and Jeri Ryan.

Dragon*Con will take place Sept. 4-7 at several hotels in Atlanta, Georgia. In attendance at Dragon*Con will be Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Gary Lockwood, and Paul McGillion.

Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be held Sept. 4-6 at the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. In attendance at Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be Adrienne Barbeau.

The Alamo City Comic Con will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center in San Antonio, Texas. In attendance at Alamo City Comic Con will be Olivia d’Abo and Ron Perlman.

The Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be held Sept. 11-13 at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be Colm Meaney and William Shatner.

RocCon will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Kodak Event Center in Rochester, New York. In attendance at RocCon will be Nichelle Nichols and Marina Sirtis.

Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be held Sept. 18-20 at the Greater Columbus Convention Center in Columbus, Ohio. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be Brent Spiner.

The Rose City Comic Con will be held Sept. 19-20 at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland, Oregon. In attendance at Rose City Comic Con will be Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols, and Wil Wheaton.

The Salt Lake Comic Con will be held Sept. 24-26 at the Salt Palace in Salt Lake City, Utah. Walter Koenig will be appearing at the Salt Lake Comic Con.

September wraps up with the London Comic Con, to be held Sept. 25-27 at the Western Fair District in London, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at the London Comic Con will be Nicole de Boer and Ron Perlman.

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Shatner To Pen Book On Nimoy http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:45:58 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41245 William Shatner is planning on writing a book about his friend Leonard Nimoy.

Shatner considered Nimoy to be a brother to him.

“I’m writing a book about Leonard,” said Shatner. “I had a brother, whose life arc was so much like mine that we understood each other completely. Our age, our birth, the same types of problems in our marriages – our careers arced in the same manner.

“We had a great deal in common, Leonard and I. And thusly we were able to understand each other. I’ve lost a dear friend.”

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Star Trek Beyond Building Continues http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:42:43 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41236 More photographs from the Star Trek Beyond set have emerged.

Five new photos show the progress made in building the set which began back in May.

STB-1

The first photo shows the bare bones of the set back in May.

STB-2

The second photo shows what appeared to be a building with some broken trees on it.

STB-3

In the third photo, it becomes clear that the second photo was not a building, but hills with broken trees. The plywood of the second photo has been covered with dirt.

STB-4

STB-5

In the last two photos, the “hills” set is being expanded.

Larger-sized photos are available at the referring site.

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Trinneer In Western Horror http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:14:05 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41232 Fans of Connor Trinneer will be able to see the actor in a western horror movie set to release on DVD and VOD beginning August 4.

The movie is called A Good Day To Die.

In A Good Day To Die, “Baron Emerson uses his vast wealth to travel the world and hunt. He does not hunt animals, he hunts warriors. The Baron arrives at the American frontier and is looking for his next prey. An outlaw gunslinger named Chamberlin who is in jail and set to be hanged. The Baron arranges for Chamberlin to be freed so that he can hunt him like an animal in a bloody game of life and death in the Wild West.”

Trinneer portrays the hunted Chamberlin, while Robert Koroluck is the hunter Baron Emerson. Others included in A Good Day To Die include Nadia Lanfranconi, Jay Kown, and Leia Perez.

A Good Day To Die was written and directed by Rene Perez.

The movie has already made its European debut, where it was released under the title Prey For Death.

For US fans, to pre-order A Good Day To Die, which sells for $8.46, head to the link located here.

 

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Beam Me Up Scotty Figurines http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:10:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41229 Two new original series figures feature Kirk and Spock in the process of “beaming up.”

The figures will be available from Funko beginning next month.

Each poseable figure is 3 3/4″ in height and features a beaming effect (the bottom part of each character shows this effect). “Captain James T. Kirk [and Spock have five] points of articulation and features unique accessories and the 1980s style card back design.”

The Beaming Kirk and Spock ReAction figures will ship next month. Each sells for $12.99 and can be pre-ordered here for Kirk, and here for Spock.

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UK Auction To Feature Spock Costume http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:08:35 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41226 TrekUKAuction073015

An auction to be held in the UK this autumn will feature a costume worn by Leonard Nimoy.

The Prop Store and Odeon Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction will take place September 23.

The catalog for the auction isn’t available yet, but at least two Star Trek items will be auctioned.

A costume worn by Nimoy during the second season (blue shirt and black trousers) will be up for auction, and is expected to fetch up to £70,000.

Also in the auction will be a model starship used in The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine.

Other non-Trek items of interest include a Star Wars stormtrooper helmet, Arnold Schwarzenegger‘s jacket from Terminator 3, a Lord of the Rings Witch King’s dagger, and a set of claws worn by Hugh Jackman in X2:X-Men United.

In all, four-hundred-and-fifty items will be auctioned.

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Pine To Star In Wonder Woman http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:57:20 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41222 PineWonderWoman052815

Back in May, TrekToday reported that Chris Pine was in negotiations to star in Warner Bros. Wonder Woman; today comes word that Pine has signed on for the role.

Pine will be playing Steve Trevor, Diana Prince’s love interest.

In the Wonder Woman comics, Trevor “was an intelligence officer in the United States Army during World War II whose plane crashed on Paradise Island, the isolated homeland of the Amazons. He was nursed back to health by the Amazon princess Diana, who fell in love with him and followed him when he returned to the outside world. There she became Wonder Woman (and also his co-worker, Diana Prince).”

Pine’s deal reportedly includes sequel options.

Written by Jason Fuchs, Wonder Woman will be directed by Patty Jenkins. Pine will be starring with Gal Gadot, who will take on the role of Diana Prince.

Wonder Woman will be released June 23, 2017.

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Pegg Teases Elba Character http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:54:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41218 Elba072915

Simon Pegg spoke briefly about the character that Idris Elba will be playing in Star Trek Beyond.

The character that Elba will be playing will be unique, Pegg promised.

“It’s a really interesting, complex character,” said Pegg. “We shouldn’t expect to see anything like Benedict Cumberbatch‘s creepy genius Khan from Star Trek Into Darkness in Elba’s performance, however. His performance is all his own.”

There’s a good reason that Elba’s villain is different than Cumberbatch’s. “Only because it would be a retread,” said Pegg. “What we don’t want to do is have the same kind of villain with the same motivation.”

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Old December 27 2012, 10:05 PM   #31
marksound
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Actually, it would be possible for them to meet the future Marty and Jennifer, since from the future time point, Marty and Jen have already arrived back in 1985, thus completing the circuit, and just leaving the younger time travelling selves the opportunity to come forward and visit them without appearing to have disappeared.

As Captain Janeway said once, time travel gives her (and us) headaches.
It's the Bill & Ted rules of time travel. "When we get back we'll put (whatever) right here so we can use it now," and there it is.

Marty was only gone from 1985 if he didn't go back to the same time he left.
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Old December 28 2012, 09:51 PM   #32
Tom
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tighr wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I looked for "the other Marty" on my blue ray, but I don't see him. Can someone use a screen shot and circle him?
He's not there.
It was actually Eric Stoltz in the background planning his revenge because the producers were able to finally get Michael J. Fox to play Marty! He is truly the 'Other Marty Mcfly' . LOL
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Old December 28 2012, 10:20 PM   #33
Dick Whitman
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tighr wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I looked for "the other Marty" on my blue ray, but I don't see him. Can someone use a screen shot and circle him?
He's not there.
Correct. That theory is from the old VHS days. When a person could not clearly pause on a frame.

Its a classic case of believing you saw something because you want to think you are clever. Those articles predate the release of Part III. This was part of a theory that at the end of Part III Mary would learn he had been replaced in 1985 by this "other Marty". So he could not return to his normal life and would continue to time travel with Doc. Hence a setup for more sequels. Obviously none of that turned out of be true!
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Old December 28 2012, 10:38 PM   #34
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tighr wrote: View Post
for example "Terminator rules, that is, it's one way only and you can't go back. "
Actually I think thats more because there wouldn't be a temporal displacement device in 1984 to use for any potential trips forward in time and the one in 2029 was planned to be destroyed after sending Reese and the reprogrammed T-800 back in time, then any fundamental rule about time travel in the Terminator movies.
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Old December 28 2012, 11:43 PM   #35
tighr
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
for example "Terminator rules, that is, it's one way only and you can't go back. "
Actually I think thats more because there wouldn't be a temporal displacement device in 1984 to use for any potential trips forward in time and the one in 2029 was planned to be destroyed after sending Reese and the reprogrammed T-800 back in time, then any fundamental rule about time travel in the Terminator movies.
Sorry, that was a subtle quote from a South Park episode dealing with time travel.

South Park wrote:
News Reporter: Aaron, I'm standing at the Time Portal, which scientists say follows Terminator rules, that is it's one way only and you can't go back. This is in contrast to say, Back to the Future rules, where back and forth is possible, and of course Time Rider rules which are just plain silly.
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Old December 29 2012, 03:49 AM   #36
tomswift2002
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Donald Draper wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I looked for "the other Marty" on my blue ray, but I don't see him. Can someone use a screen shot and circle him?
He's not there.
Correct. That theory is from the old VHS days.
Plus weren't all the old VHS's released in 4:3 pan & scan, which actually provided more picture than the current widescreen DVD's and Blu-Ray's. (All three movies were shot in 1.37:1, but were filmed with a soft matte in mind for theatrical exhibition.). So people might've thought they saw something on "new" picture that wasn't seen in the theatrical exhibition.
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Old December 29 2012, 09:53 AM   #37
Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Having got the Blu-Ray of the trilogy for X-mas, one of the things I noticed about part3 was rather odd.


In part one, at some point over 30 years (but likely close to 1985) Do decides "what the hell" and reads the letter. However, on November 12, 1955, he's dead-set against it. so is it that the next day, he's not steaming mad - maybe at himself - when he learns of his own fate by reading his own letter.

This makes me think that the theory of time travel in these films is comprised of separate layers. There is one reality in which no time travel ever happened. Then, layered through it somehow, is another layer wherein Mary travels to the past and meets Doc, and Doc refuses to read the letter until later, and that future resolves itself. The next layer assumes the other layer itself before Doc reads his own letter from 1885. My point is that Doc's decision to say "what the he''?" is not dependent on having read his own letter from 1885, and he would have come to that conclusion anyway, and the continuum would have assumed that that decision played itself out before mapping how Marty's return to see Doc the very next day might affect it. This works much like the logic of the second film, where in Mary and Jennifer can travel into the future but the time continuum assumes that they made it back to the present to grow up together and have kids.

Oh gawd, my brain hurts. I love these movies.
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Old December 29 2012, 10:05 AM   #38
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
In part one, at some point over 30 years (but likely close to 1985) Do decides "what the hell" and reads the letter. However, on November 12, 1955, he's dead-set against it. so is it that the next day, he's not steaming mad - maybe at himself - when he learns of his own fate by reading his own letter.
Like he says, he figured "what the hell?!" once he knew the information he could then decide what to do with it. But he obviously must have read the letter in 1955 because it'd be hard to reassemble and tape together the letter without reading it. (But, I guess, not impossible.) It may have been the next day when things calmed down he figured there'd be little harm in it.

It would have been nice if in 3 we had gotten a nod to the idea that Marty's plan will still work. With Doc picking the coat up off the ground (wearing it that morning in the cool California in November desert?), finding the scraps and getting a look of "You know..." in his head.

It's also "possible" knowing the danger he was in Doc always WAS wearing the bullet-proof vest, Marty just never got the chance to see Doc survive the first time around because of the Libyans. (Doc remains on the ground, unconscious, in both versions of the time line through the DeLorean/Bus chase and time travel sequence. And in both cases Marty gives Doc a cursory check, the second time around "our" Marty apparently not noticing the lack of blood on the corpse or the bulky BP vest on Doc. So he must have "felt the same" as he did earlier.)
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Old December 29 2012, 10:16 AM   #39
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tighr wrote: View Post
South Park ... and of course Time Rider rules which are just plain silly.
Would those be the ... "travel back in time to the old west on a dirt bike and conceive your own grandmother with your incredible hot great-grandmother, then a helicopter shows up out of nowhere" ... rules?

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Old December 31 2012, 07:05 PM   #40
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
But he obviously must have read the letter in 1955 because it'd be hard to reassemble and tape together the letter without reading it. (But, I guess, not impossible.)
I suppose its possible he kept the scraps together in an envelope and then reassembled them 30 years later, but not too likely though. So yeah, I always assumed Doc reassembled and read the letter in 1955.
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Old December 31 2012, 07:38 PM   #41
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
It would have been nice if in 3 we had gotten a nod to the idea that Marty's plan will still work. With Doc picking the coat up off the ground (wearing it that morning in the cool California in November desert?), finding the scraps and getting a look of "You know..." in his head.

Perhaps Marty was thinking.

"It will work out in end. Sure he tore up the letter NOW but he'll piece together later and ultimately wear a bulletproof vest"


BTTF 3 Marty could cause a paradox/more damage if he mentioned the letter again to Doc.


Doc- Oh right! Now i'm going to throw it in the trash after I ripped it up.

*More complications ensue.*
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Old January 2 2013, 04:15 AM   #42
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Donald Draper wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
He's not there.
Correct. That theory is from the old VHS days.
Plus weren't all the old VHS's released in 4:3 pan & scan, which actually provided more picture than the current widescreen DVD's and Blu-Ray's. (All three movies were shot in 1.37:1, but were filmed with a soft matte in mind for theatrical exhibition.). So people might've thought they saw something on "new" picture that wasn't seen in the theatrical exhibition.
i think your wrong. It's not there YET -- the future hasn't happened yet! Haven't we been paying attention to the BTTF trilogy?

It'll be in a future revised version, where they add in details like this a la George Lucas.
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Old January 2 2013, 08:18 PM   #43
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

tighr wrote: View Post
That being said, one of the things that I was unable to rectify is how Marty (and Jennifer) are able to meet their future selves in 2015. By traveling into the future, they no longer exist in 1985, and therefore do not grow old to exist in 2015. You can't visit your future self, but you can visit your past self.
From the writers' official FAQ, mandatory reading for every fan:

To be honest, yes, it very well should erase their existence from the future. This is, in fact, the ultimate paradox of Back to the Future Part II. We really thought about this one for a long time, but we finally decided that after the set-up of Doc saying "Something's got to be done about your kids," the audience would feel cheated if we went to the future and found out they didn't exist. You could, however, argue that existence of Old Marty, Old Jennifer and their kids in the future automatically proves that young Marty and Jennifer will eventually get back to 1985. The flaw in this reasoning is that Doc repeatedly tells us that the future isn't written, so why would this part of the future be "written?" Ah, but Back to the Future Part III may contain the answer to this question after all. When Doc spots the tombstone in 1885 and sees that the name on the photograph of the tombstone has vanished but the date remains, he says "We know this photograph represents what will happen if the events of today continue to run their course into tomorrow." That's a pretty big "if." And it suggests that time travel to the future always takes you to a future based on the events of the time you left a logical extrapolation of what the future of that moment holds. Of course, the existence of free will allows for the possibility of infinite futures, which is what Doc says at the end of Back to the Future Part III: "Your future is whatever you make it." But time travel into the future takes you to the most likely future of the moment you left.
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Old January 2 2013, 08:37 PM   #44
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Gaith wrote: View Post
From the writers' official FAQ, mandatory reading for every fan:
Yes, thank you. I have read that before.

As I stated, I am unable to rectify that glaring error in the film. As Zemekis says, they goofed at the end of BTTF Part I, mostly because they never intended to make a sequel. That scene at the end pretty much pigeon-holed them for Part II. The plot about the "kids" was pretty thin, which is why they had to beef it up with the real plot, the almanac.

Internally, following the logic of the BTTF universe, I am OK with things like the photographs or newspapers disappearing/changing. Those things are relics of a future time (that now exist in a past time), a time that is in jeopardy based on events that occur in the past. But in BTTF Part II, they are physically in that future time, so nothing they do there has any effect on, well, really anything.

It was cool to see the future (the whole point of making the movie). But if this were reality (hahaha) a better thing for Doc to do would be come back at the end of Part I and say, "Marty, your kids turn out to be assholes. In 30 years, make sure you keep an eye on them." Takes less jiggawatts that way.
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Old January 2 2013, 10:54 PM   #45
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Re: Minor BTTF Part Two question

Anyone ever consider what the "Mr. Fusion" on the back of the DeLorean (and presumably a power source used all over in 2015) is really capable of? Forget that it's capable of providing cold fusion in a small space and is "stable" enough to be mounted on a car. But what we see it do is simply incredible, on some levels it's more powerful than any other natural fusion reaction in the universe.

In massive stars hydrogen is fused together to form helium, then helium to form carbon, and some of the other elements are mixed in there but once a star (if its big enough) gets to iron it cannot go any further. At that point there's not enough energy in the star to fuse two iron molecules together to from the next element, at this point the star is so heavy and dense that it collapses into itself likely forming a black-hole.

When we see Doc use the Mr. Fusion at the end of BTTF 1/beginning of BTTF 2 we see him dump inside the Mr. Fusion chamber some eggs, beer, an aluminum can, styrofoam and some other pieces of garbage. "Somehow" the Mr. Fusion is capable of taking these materials that not only contain elements much more complex than hydrogen or helium but alos contains chemical compounds. Rather than pretty much doing nothing because it doesn't have the power to, the Mr. Fusion is able to take the stuff dumped into and convert it into raw, pure, energy. (Also I'm sure some number crunching of what we see Doc put into the device would equal far more than 1.21 GW.)
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