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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 27 2012, 06:13 PM   #211
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
Are people really baffled and shocked by someone changing their opinion years later?
Of course not.

Are people bemused by someone changing their opinion 180 degrees and then going about suggesting that the thing they praised lavishly is largely without merit and directed at the lowest common denominator type of audience? Are people somewhat annoyed by the repetition of tired old jabs at obvious things like "lens flares" when the poster clearly did not have any noticeable negative response to the technique back when they were declaring the thing "brilliant?"

Yeah, pretty much.

When the same individual denounces the movie as nothing better than rubbish - adding to that foolishness like abusing the director's name (another very tired, old and worthless joke) - it really undercuts whatever claim to nuanced taste or considered judgment the poster makes...in fact, it looks very much like the expression of a simple intention to provoke on any grounds or no grounds at all.

It's impossible to take that sort of thing seriously...and it's also funny as hell.
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Old December 27 2012, 06:47 PM   #212
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
Repeat viewings can show a turd turn out to be golden and gold turn out to be a turd.
Isn't it strange that this never happens with actual gold and turds?
Yes, it's strange that when speaking in analogy, that "gold" (aka something good) and "turd" (aka something bad) can change from one to another given that they're based on opinions on art and opinions can change, but in reality, the actual material of feces cannot transmutate into metal.

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Old December 27 2012, 07:02 PM   #213
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

You pretty much missed the point, there.
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Old December 27 2012, 07:19 PM   #214
DalekJim
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
Yes, it's strange that when speaking in analogy, that "gold" (aka something good) and "turd" (aka something bad) can change from one to another given that they're based on opinions on art and opinions can change, but in reality, the actual material of feces cannot transmutate into metal.

There could be metal in somebody's feces though.

OH, I DON'T KNOW!
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Old December 28 2012, 05:17 AM   #215
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
Repeat viewings can show a turd turn out to be golden and gold turn out to be a turd.
Isn't it strange that this never happens with actual gold and turds?
Yes, it's strange that when speaking in analogy, that "gold" (aka something good) and "turd" (aka something bad) can change from one to another given that they're based on opinions on art and opinions can change, but in reality, the actual material of feces cannot transmutate into metal.

It's this kind of over-analyzing that's the reason Trek fans can't have nice things...
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Old December 28 2012, 11:36 AM   #216
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Franklin wrote: View Post
I think you may have misread my post a bit. I was thrilled by how true Abrams stayed to the characters and setting of TOS while also giving it a new feel.
It was great seeing young actors for a change. I appreciated that they were working hard to try to capture aesthetic touches and the fun of the original show. I had certain misgivings too, but there is already too much hate in this thread.

What has concerns me is really the justification. In principle, your initial justification would warrant anything so long as Trek lived on. Your secondary justification (i.e., your justification of your justification) is practical (but they didn't do that - they haven't done just anything).

Let me put it to you this way. I once had an ethics teacher who related a conversation she'd had with a devout capitalist that went along these lines. She expressed the concern that capitalism is only concerned with making money, and so might do anything in the course of chasing a buck. Her capitalist friend, however, argued that the market will always correct any inefficiencies. She asked, but what if it doesn't always do this? That, according to her friend, it had not yet happened, was no guarantee that it would not see abuse in the future.

While I doubt that you are really trying to say "Anything goes!" this is, nonetheless, the implication of your argument, and more importantly (since I have no beef with you personally) arguments like yours.

Again, if we all love Trek so much that there is something worth saving, then we cannot forget that new stewards should recognize this and honor, as much as they can, the tradition they're helming. And this means there is room, in principle, for some criticism. That's all.
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Old December 28 2012, 03:18 PM   #217
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

What?
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Old December 28 2012, 05:05 PM   #218
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

YARN wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
I think you may have misread my post a bit. I was thrilled by how true Abrams stayed to the characters and setting of TOS while also giving it a new feel.
It was great seeing young actors for a change. I appreciated that they were working hard to try to capture aesthetic touches and the fun of the original show. I had certain misgivings too, but there is already too much hate in this thread.

What has concerns me is really the justification. In principle, your initial justification would warrant anything so long as Trek lived on. Your secondary justification (i.e., your justification of your justification) is practical (but they didn't do that - they haven't done just anything).

Let me put it to you this way. I once had an ethics teacher who related a conversation she'd had with a devout capitalist that went along these lines. She expressed the concern that capitalism is only concerned with making money, and so might do anything in the course of chasing a buck. Her capitalist friend, however, argued that the market will always correct any inefficiencies. She asked, but what if it doesn't always do this? That, according to her friend, it had not yet happened, was no guarantee that it would not see abuse in the future.

While I doubt that you are really trying to say "Anything goes!" this is, nonetheless, the implication of your argument, and more importantly (since I have no beef with you personally) arguments like yours.

Again, if we all love Trek so much that there is something worth saving, then we cannot forget that new stewards should recognize this and honor, as much as they can, the tradition they're helming. And this means there is room, in principle, for some criticism. That's all.
Understood. And if there wasn't room for criticism, these boards wouldn't exist.

Trust me, "anything goes" in terms of what Trek could or would be is hardly how I feel, anyway. Scotty as a woman? No, not for me. Yet another set of characters in another setting in another time put under the label, "Star Trek"? Meh. I gave "Enterprise" a chance, if you know what I mean.

As opposed to some reintroductions or reinterpretations of older entertainment (look at all the remakes out there), I actually think Abrams took a rather conservative approach to rebooting "Star Trek". Flawed at times? Yes. But generally satisfying to me.
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Old December 28 2012, 05:09 PM   #219
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Franklin wrote: View Post
Trust me, "anything goes" in terms of what Trek could or would be is hardly how I feel, anyway. Scotty as a woman? No, not for me. Yet another set of characters in another setting in another time put under the label, "Star Trek"? Meh. I gave "Enterprise" a chance, if you know what I mean.
What if Trek XI had been the same except set on the USS Whatever, featuring Chris Pine as Jake Rock, Sylar as T'Pok and Karl Urban as Doctor Walker?
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Old December 28 2012, 05:24 PM   #220
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
Trust me, "anything goes" in terms of what Trek could or would be is hardly how I feel, anyway. Scotty as a woman? No, not for me. Yet another set of characters in another setting in another time put under the label, "Star Trek"? Meh. I gave "Enterprise" a chance, if you know what I mean.
What if Trek XI had been the same except set on the USS Whatever, featuring Chris Pine as Jake Rock, Sylar as T'Pok and Karl Urban as Doctor Walker?
But why, when Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and the others are marketable names? That was part of the beauty of it. TOS was probably the only part of the franchise that hadn't played itself out. Only 79 episodes of Kirk in his prime v. seven seasons and over 170 episodes each of Picard, Janeway, and Sisko; and even 98 episodes of Archer.

They could find over 170 different things for Picard to do, but ran out at 79 for Kirk?
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Old December 28 2012, 05:28 PM   #221
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Shazam! wrote:
What if Trek XI had been the same except set on the USS Whatever, featuring Chris Pine as Jake Rock, Sylar as T'Pok and Karl Urban as Doctor Walker?
Franklin wrote: View Post
But why, when Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and the others are marketable names?
So you would have dismissed it. Okay.
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Old December 28 2012, 05:34 PM   #222
Franklin
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote:
What if Trek XI had been the same except set on the USS Whatever, featuring Chris Pine as Jake Rock, Sylar as T'Pok and Karl Urban as Doctor Walker?
Franklin wrote: View Post
But why, when Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and the others are marketable names?
So you would have dismissed it. Okay.
No, but it wouldn't have as easily caught my attention. If it had been done that way and word of mouth and reviews called it a really good movie, I'd have probably seen it, anyway. I went to "Iron Man" and the first and third of the recent Bond movies based on that. I've never followed either, but I was told they were worth seeing.
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Old December 28 2012, 06:57 PM   #223
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
Trust me, "anything goes" in terms of what Trek could or would be is hardly how I feel, anyway. Scotty as a woman? No, not for me. Yet another set of characters in another setting in another time put under the label, "Star Trek"? Meh. I gave "Enterprise" a chance, if you know what I mean.
What if Trek XI had been the same except set on the USS Whatever, featuring Chris Pine as Jake Rock, Sylar as T'Pok and Karl Urban as Doctor Walker?
There's something intangible and awesome about revisiting famous characters. It brings a nostalgia that enhances the experience somehow. That's why they're remaking Superman again, instead of just inventing PowerMan 3000.
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Old December 28 2012, 07:33 PM   #224
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Once one admits the hypothetical, any conclusion one likes can be arrived at by logic.
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Old December 29 2012, 01:04 AM   #225
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Shazam! wrote: View Post
What if Trek XI had been the same except set on the USS Whatever, featuring Chris Pine as Jake Rock, Sylar as T'Pok and Karl Urban as Doctor Walker?

42 million domestic. 17 million foreign.
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