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Old December 28 2012, 12:30 AM   #31
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Davros wrote: View Post
Merry Farrell wrote: View Post
i vote for humans. that species seems to turn up everywhere, so they must be resilient
the Master called them the greatest monsters in the universe.
And he would know.
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Old December 28 2012, 01:02 AM   #32
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Santaman wrote: View Post
http://www.pr-materiequelle.de/riss/risszei/r465.htm
Marco Polo which is a 2.5Km sphere ship.

http://www.pr-materiequelle.de/riss/poster/r1100_p.htm
A later ship, the 14Km long BASIS, mean little thing...
From Wikipedia, on Culture ships:
General Systems Vehicles (GSVs) are the Culture's largest type of ship, ranging between 25 km and 200 km in each dimension (including the fields protecting them and forming the exterior of their life-support system)
Its almost not possible to compare any SF series to Perry Rhodan, the story arcs sometimes span years in writing and 40.000 years in in universe history, the vastness of it all is beyond everything else in SF, it spans 51 years now and they're still writing it, the "universe" they've created is mind blowing, the characters, the technology its all HUGE.
Quantity does not equal quality (and yes, I realise the irony of that statement).
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Old December 28 2012, 10:51 AM   #33
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

^^ Rhodan's universe has so called Spore ships, 1126km in diameter which isn't much smaller than our moon.
http://www.pr-materiequelle.de/riss/risszei/r1271.htm

Also there's a fleet called The Endless Armada which consist out of 513 million ships..

And us humans have Old Man a 200Km half sphere battleship carrier, underneath the sphere are 12 box shaped sections each 50x50x10 Km each holding 840 2.5Km ships, in total 15,080 of them.
http://www.pr-materiequelle.de/riss/risszei/r300.jpg

As for quality, well even after more than 50 years they STILL haven't made any continuity errors so...
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Old December 28 2012, 01:11 PM   #34
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

There's more than that (Orbitals, for example), but the GSVs can have a population of millions.

But then, the galactic civilisations of the Lensman series also had big ships and thousands of thousands of years.

So, we can all say we're grateful that our favourite authors like to Think Big.

(Still prefer the Culture, though. )
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Old December 28 2012, 02:05 PM   #35
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

The Douwd were pretty powerful if Kevin Uxbridge is a fair example.
Stricken by grief and giving in to his rage, Kevin used his powers to destroy the Husnock. Not just the attacking vessel and its crew, he explains, but "all Husnock, everywhere" -- annihilating the entire species, over 50 billion. - STTNG S3 ep3
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Old December 28 2012, 02:30 PM   #36
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Australis wrote: View Post
There's more than that (Orbitals, for example), but the GSVs can have a population of millions.

But then, the galactic civilisations of the Lensman series also had big ships and thousands of thousands of years.

So, we can all say we're grateful that our favourite authors like to Think Big.

(Still prefer the Culture, though. )
Yeah they did (and still) think big.

My favorite 40's pulp is Captain Future, hope they'll do something with that, the late 70's anime was great but a tad outdated.
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Old December 28 2012, 03:48 PM   #37
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Blamo wrote: View Post
When they're on form, the Time Lords.

For starters they created the TARDIS, a virtually invulnerable ship that can travel through space and time, is bigger on the inside and is capable of hauling planets about (as much as I'd like to forget that ending).

And that's just the outdated "junk" the Doctor travels in.

They can teleport planets around time and space, trap them in eternal force fields or stick whole solar systems into a time loop at a flick of a switch.
The TARDIS (Tardii?) are naturally occuring spaceborn coral-like entities slaved to the Time Lords, bred for use as ships by inplanting technology (and carving out sections of their living interior) in their centuries long "childhood" phase when they still reside entirely in one dimension, growing to full adulthood about the size of Earth's moon.
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Old December 28 2012, 03:50 PM   #38
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Blamo wrote: View Post
When they're on form, the Time Lords.

For starters they created the TARDIS, a virtually invulnerable ship that can travel through space and time, is bigger on the inside and is capable of hauling planets about (as much as I'd like to forget that ending).

And that's just the outdated "junk" the Doctor travels in.

They can teleport planets around time and space, trap them in eternal force fields or stick whole solar systems into a time loop at a flick of a switch.
The TARDIS (Tardii?) are naturally occuring spaceborn coral-like entities slaved to the Time Lords, bred for use as ships by inplanting technology (and carving out sections of their living interior) in their centuries long "childhood" phase when they still reside entirely in one dimension, growing to full adulthood about the size of Earth's moon.
Where do you get this idea from? I don't remember any mention of it on-screen?
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Old December 28 2012, 03:54 PM   #39
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Torchwood, somehow Jack got his hands on a fetal Tardis, it's growing on his desk in the series. It's only about two feet across now, he mentions it will take up to 500 years for it to grow to the point where he can manipulate it's shape into the beginnings of a ship form Tardis.
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Old December 28 2012, 04:05 PM   #40
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

This still draws a blank with me - in what episode is it explicitly referenced as Tardis coral or indeed any of the rest is mentioned?

Edit: Looking around that is simply a suggestion thrown out by the actor John Barrowman in a Radio Times interview and is never mentioned or even suggested on-screen.
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Old December 28 2012, 04:15 PM   #41
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

TARDISes are bioships that are grown from a species of coral presumably indigenous to Gallifrey, as shown in "The Impossible Planet," (2006) and it can take years to complete one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardis
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Old December 28 2012, 10:31 PM   #42
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

^ I thought TARDISes were sentient lifeforms unto themselves?



JoeZhang wrote: View Post
This still draws a blank with me - in what episode is it explicitly referenced as Tardis coral or indeed any of the rest is mentioned?
IIRC there was one episode where the Doctor mentions changing the "desktop theme" to "coral". I guess this refers to the constantly changing control room appearance, which appears to be configurable at the user's whim.
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Old December 29 2012, 12:02 AM   #43
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Santaman wrote: View Post
^^ Rhodan's universe has so called Spore ships, 1126km in diameter which isn't much smaller than our moon.
http://www.pr-materiequelle.de/riss/risszei/r1271.htm

Also there's a fleet called The Endless Armada which consist out of 513 million ships..

And us humans have Old Man a 200Km half sphere battleship carrier, underneath the sphere are 12 box shaped sections each 50x50x10 Km each holding 840 2.5Km ships, in total 15,080 of them.
http://www.pr-materiequelle.de/riss/risszei/r300.jpg

As for quality, well even after more than 50 years they STILL haven't made any continuity errors so...
Yeah, sounds like Lensman magnified.
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Old December 29 2012, 06:50 AM   #44
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Blamo wrote: View Post
When they're on form, the Time Lords.

For starters they created the TARDIS, a virtually invulnerable ship that can travel through space and time, is bigger on the inside and is capable of hauling planets about (as much as I'd like to forget that ending).

And that's just the outdated "junk" the Doctor travels in.

They can teleport planets around time and space, trap them in eternal force fields or stick whole solar systems into a time loop at a flick of a switch.
According to the Doctor, there is at least one civilization that would undo either Time Lords or Daleks if even one of them went rogue: the Osirans. The Doctor trapped Sutekh, but had he lived nothing would have overcome him.
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Old December 29 2012, 12:10 PM   #45
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Santaman wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
Santaman wrote: View Post
The Q are little brats and quite powerless when it comes to the beings in the Perry Rhodan series.

To quote wiki:

To all life, an evolutionary theory called the "onion-shell-model" is employed. It states, that there is a continuous evolution from lower life-forms (bacteria) to higher life-forms like intelligent life and finally bodyless entities. Upon invention, the onion-shell-model was used by the authors as if there are definite and discrete stages in cosmological evolution. However, later in the series further life-forms, representing stages between the known shells, were introduced.

The main shells are:

life-less matter
bacteria
higher animals
intelligent species
intelligent species, that have contacted other species
superintelligences (SI)
matter-fountains/matter-sinks
cosmocrats/chaotarchs (high powers)

The Q would be merely a superinteligence species, cosmocrats and chaotarchsare a few whole levels more powerful, they rule EVERY universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Rhodan

As for technology, Rhodan's humanity itself has ships of immense power, a single one of those that can totally wipe out the Borg without breaking a sweat, or being in danger for one second.
I don't know, the Q probably in the Rhodan high powers category..their power ranged from the beginning of the universe to some realistic speculation on the future. Still, I have problems with intelligences/powers than range through multiverses...the physics involved are likely a limitation on such species.

When speculating on the future, I try not to go as far as including such all-powerful entities, though I don't mind speculating on hyper-advanced species within the technological realm.

Like the Culture, most stories written with species of such powers have to be done so with them on the periphery, otherwise its hard to write any drama in them..same with species even on the Borg level, at some point you have to de-power them in some way or reduce the threat, or you can never use them.

RAMA

I've read most of Perry Rhodan up to the 2035's (took years o_O) and there's no comparing the Q with a Cosmocrat, they're so vastly beyond everything humans can even imagine that they can't usually directly communicate a life form at human level, they'd have to create a sort of avatar for that which is by all means still more powerful than anything else in the universe(s).
Santaman, the fact that the Cosmocrats can't communicate directly with humans is a limitation, NOT a strength.
I'm sure it was introduced for the Perry Rhodan Cosmocrats in order to make them cool and mysterious; but this came at a price, depowering them.

The Q, on the other hand, have no problem directly communicating with humans, despite themselves being beyond human understanding.

The Q would be a super intelligence level species at most, but they're, from what we've seen in Star Trek, too limited in what they can do, the SI that keeps an eye on us humans has an influence sphere that spans the local group in this and other universes and controls several dimensions attached to these universes.
TV trek didn't go too deeply into describing the Q.
The trek lit line made it pretty clear that the Q are part of the ruling class of the multiverse, not limited to its iterations that include the federation's known history(ies).

Its powers aren't displayed in the ways the Q, they're much more subtle, but on occasion they do things like absorbing an entire species to save them from extinction, also they're not beyond creating pocket universes and planets as they see fit.
And now, the Cosmocrats rarely use their power.
Any practical definition of power has to include not only the capability to do something, but the will to do something, as well. Apparently, more often than not, the Cosmocrats lack the latter.


All things considered, when comparing the Q and the Cosmocrats, the Cosmocrats are the ones found lacking.
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