"The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Yminale]

Trekker4747 wrote:

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Now that I think about it, how did TALIA know about the armory? It was off the books and she presumably knew about it BEFORE Wayne Enterprises was signed back to her.

You just complained that Bane showed no evidence of long term planning but the attack on the armory and the stadium showed other wise. As for being off the books, well it's called a paper trail.

Do you REALLY think the President, Congress, the military and, hell, the American people are just going to shrug and say, "Whadda you gonna do?! Send them a truck full of food every couple of weeks and we'll call it good."

Well that's what happened during Katrina (and Sandy), so yes I do buy it.

[Trekker4747]

Yminale wrote:

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You just complained that Bane showed no evidence of long term planning but the attack on the armory and the stadium showed other wise. As for being off the books, well it's called a paper trail.

That the attack on the armory and stadium "shows otherwise" isn't evidence of long-term planning it's evidence that "something" must have happened but we're never shown it so we're left to assume it did. We just know that "somehow" Bane got explosives all over the city, in bridges and tunnels and in the stadium and that "somehow" he knew where to set-up shop under Batman's armory but we're never really told why. It's the same thing as how The Joker was able to get so many explosives planted onto city ferries. But it's a bit bigger and more complex because what Bane pulls off is much more massive in scale, done without organized crime being in the city, and did it while being completely off the radar.

Well that's what happened during Katrina (and Sandy), so yes I do buy it.

As I recall, the American people were VERY upset with what happened with Katrina. (And the fairly minor missteps with Sandy are hardly comparable to the week-long clusterfuck of Katrina. Unless the media has just not mentioned rapes and murders happening in a New Jersey stadium.)

Also slow response to a natural disaster in a city is very different than a large region being held hostage by a nuclear weapon over a period of MONTHS.

That's the thing that's easy to forget in this movie... MONTHS passed between the incident in the football stadium that started everything and when Bane activates the reactor and the end of the movie. Something like six months, as I recall. That's also six months where presumably there wasn't much going on in Gotham as far as maintaining public works infrastructure and systems. Pipes, powerlines, tunnels, trains, all stuff that needs to be maintained regularly and won't sit well for six months.

Yeah, Bane's plan in this movie just doesn't hold up well under scrutiny. As I said above, the microwave thing buys a handwave because it's pretty much thrown in there as just "something" Batman has to do to prove his worth to the city. The movie is really about something else, not the microwave doo-hickey (which obviously has huge problems too.) Joker's Sophie's Choice and much of what he does involves levels of planning that'd be hard to pull off and his Rube Goldbergian series of events also had to go PERFECTLY for everything to work. It also buys and hand wave thanks to Ledger's chilling, thrilling and endlessly watchable performance of The Joker.

TDKR has neither of those to fall back on. Hardy was good but it was hard to get as wrapped up in his performance enough to hand wave what he pulls off, and the movie simply asks us to accept too much. I don't even think Ledger's Joker could've bought this much hand waving.

As I said above, I think TDKR is good, but it just has a LOT of problems that I find it hard to look over. Bane's plan and how it is executed is one of them.

[Agent Richard07]

Trekker4747 wrote:

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Much of this movie doesn't make sense, and really, as good as Hardy was in this he's just not nearly as interesting watch as the Joker and his Sean Connery-ian accent is hard to find intimidating with bulking hulk that he is. It's like watching Mike Tyson talk. You know he can turn you into pulp but you can't help but laugh.

I loved that voice. It was better than making him sound like some clichéd brute with a deep gruff voice, the kind you usually get with tough guys.

Trekker4747 wrote:

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And, really, would it have been that big of a deal to work the Venom into the story somehow? Couldn't it just have been a powerful artificial steroid Bane was using that was constantly being pumped into him through the mask rather than, "Uhhh... anesthetic.

Agreed. The anesthetic gas was pretty weak. They could have done something better with the mask.

Trekker4747 wrote:

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And, of course, it's hard to ignore him going into retirement for 8 years after only being Batman for ONE year. He retires because his girlfriend died, apparently more devastating and life-shattering than his parents being murdered right in front of him so he goes complete emo for 8 years.

I got the impression that he quit, not only because Rachel died, but because he was in over his head and because the crime bosses had been rounded up anyway.

[Donald Draper]

He retired because he thought he achieved what he set out to do. People have miss understood the effect of Rachel's death.

Bruce had envisioned his life after Batman being with her. Without her and without a needed to be Batman he had no idea what to do with himself. The public image of Bruce Wayne was an act. He was not going to be that guy for real. He clearly did but some time into Wayne Enterprises before his full seclusion.

[GalaxyX]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this as I only skimmed thru the thread.

But there were two things that completely ruined the movie for me:

1. The "brushing away" of Bruce's knee injury.
2. The "brushing away" of Bruce's back injury.

If you have a knee in which all cartilage has been destroyed, you are NOT hooking up some kind of spring activated brace to kick harder, not unless you want to experience excruciating pain while doing so.

And if your back gets snapped in half, AND you are lucky enough that the spinal cord was somehow untouched, you will NOT recover unless trained surgeons get in there and rebuild your vertebrae and spinal discs!! Probably having to use artificial ones.

Dammit it's pissing me off thinking about this right now! That so ruined the movie for me. I've only seen it once. And this is from a guy that watched Batman Begins 11 times in the theatre, and TDK 4 times.

[Trekker4747]

I agree, the medical issues were handwaved too much.

[Gaith]

Donald Draper wrote:

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Without her and without a needed to be Batman he had no idea what to do with himself. The public image of Bruce Wayne was an act. He was not going to be that guy for real.

He couldn't have at least gotten a dog or two?!

[Hartzilla2007]

GalaxyX wrote:

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I don't know if anyone has mentioned this as I only skimmed thru the thread.

But there were two things that completely ruined the movie for me:

1. The "brushing away" of Bruce's knee injury.
2. The "brushing away" of Bruce's back injury.

If you have a knee in which all cartilage has been destroyed, you are NOT hooking up some kind of spring activated brace to kick harder, not unless you want to experience excruciating pain while doing so.

And if your back gets snapped in half, AND you are lucky enough that the spinal cord was somehow untouched, you will NOT recover unless trained surgeons get in there and rebuild your vertebrae and spinal discs!! Probably having to use artificial ones.

Dammit it's pissing me off thinking about this right now! That so ruined the movie for me. I've only seen it once. And this is from a guy that watched Batman Begins 11 times in the theatre, and TDK 4 times.

Trekker4747 wrote:

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I agree, the medical issues were handwaved too much.

Meh, he's Batman when the hell has something being unrealistic stopped him.

[JarodRussell]

It's not the brushing away that irritated me, it's that they completely forgot about his knee brace. It would have been nice to see that he gets an advantage over Bane's brute force by using it and other mechanical enhancements.

[The Mirrorball Man]

JarodRussell wrote:

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It's not the brushing away that irritated me, it's that they completely forgot about his knee brace. It would have been nice to see that he gets an advantage over Bane's brute force by using it and other mechanical enhancements.

The movie is more about people than it is about technology.

[JarodRussell]

The Mirrorball Man wrote:

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The movie is more about people than it is about technology.

[The Mirrorball Man]

JarodRussell wrote:

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I'm serious. When talking about a movie where the main character has to rebuild himself from the ground up and rethink his priorities in order to defeat his enemy, a scene in which a technological gizmo gives him an advantage over the villain would make no sense. The movie is about people more than it is about technology. Does it make more sense now?

[JarodRussell]

"I can't beat him physically, I have to outsmart him and enhance my suit" wouldn't have worked?

The entire Dark Knight trilogy consists of technological gizmos that give him an advantage over the villain.

[The Mirrorball Man]

JarodRussell wrote:

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"I can't beat him physically, I have to outsmart him and enhance my suit" wouldn't have worked?

No, seriously, as it is, the movie is basically Rocky III: Bruce is defeated by the new champion, has to find the eye of the tiger again then comes back and win. What you're describing, whether it would have worked or not, is a completely different movie, one that doesn't sound quite as interesting to me, to be honest. It's more of an Iron Man plot, isn't it?

[JarodRussell]

The Mirrorball Man wrote:

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No, seriously, as it is, the movie is basically Rocky III: Bruce is defeated by the new champion, has to find the eye of the tiger again then comes back and win. What you're describing, whether it would have worked or not, is a completely different movie, one that doesn't sound quite as interesting to me, to be honest. It's more of an Iron Man plot, isn't it?

It's Batman. He also didn't carry the nuke out of Gotham on his back, he used his Batplane. Beating a villain with gadgets is Batman. Having the humility to recognize that he can't physically beat that guy and has to rely on technology instead wouldn't have turned it into a different film.