RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,373
Posts: 5,356,676
Members: 24,626
Currently online: 600
Newest member: Nostromov

TrekToday headlines

The Gene Roddenberry Project Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Moore: No Deep Space Nine Regrets
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Pegg Star Wars Rumor
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 28 2012, 06:06 AM   #46
Salinga
Captain
 
Salinga's Avatar
 
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
I think a some of shots in there are unfair, especially since many have been "frozen" and blown up.
WTF!? AFTER the mistakes have been noticed while watching it in normal speed on a normal TV!

I am always surprised, how some construct caricatures of a behaviour to then dismiss it or use the caricature for their own argument - for some reason not noticing, that they are using just that: a caricature and nothing that has something to do with reality.

So, I make it clear for everyone: The picture of someone watching TNG frame by frame, zooming into each frame to search for flaws and errors ... IS A CARICATURE. So stop basing your arguments against pointing out the flaws of Season 2 on this caricature image.
Salinga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28 2012, 12:02 PM   #47
FrontierTrek
Fleet Captain
 
FrontierTrek's Avatar
 
Location: TrekCore.com
View FrontierTrek's Twitter Profile
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

I understand the frustration with the different look of Season 2 and how some VFX scenes don't meet expectations and have fallen short.

Please realize that the budget and resources available for TNG's remastering are VERY limited indeed. Getting approval for the project and budget in the first place took YEARS. The time required for making fixes and reinserting them into the master recordings and all of the related work is surprisingly large. This really can hurt the show and project as a whole when it means that there's less time and money available to do something important on the next season down the line.

This makes any mass-replacement of Season 2 VFX not only is unrealistic but also damaging to the project as a whole. As many readers have pointed out, Season 2 is NOT bad... it's just not up to Season 1's standards which were VERY high.
__________________
www.TrekCore.com :: The Net's LARGEST Trek Multimedia Site
Over 450,000 Trek DVD & Blu-Ray Caps from EVERY episode/movie!
FrontierTrek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28 2012, 12:07 PM   #48
FrontierTrek
Fleet Captain
 
FrontierTrek's Avatar
 
Location: TrekCore.com
View FrontierTrek's Twitter Profile
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

BillJ wrote: View Post
thumbtack wrote: View Post
After they see all the problems with Best of Both Worlds, Part II they will be a bit more sympathetic to your cause, hopeless though it is.

At the moment it's just the dreaded Season 2 that the B Team has put forth, so it's easy to be dismissive.
Rumor has it that CBS-Digital is handling both parts.
The same house will be doing Parts 1 and 2 of "The Best of Both Worlds".
__________________
www.TrekCore.com :: The Net's LARGEST Trek Multimedia Site
Over 450,000 Trek DVD & Blu-Ray Caps from EVERY episode/movie!
FrontierTrek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28 2012, 09:12 PM   #49
BriGuy
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Salinga wrote: View Post
Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
I think a some of shots in there are unfair, especially since many have been "frozen" and blown up.
WTF!? AFTER the mistakes have been noticed while watching it in normal speed on a normal TV!

I am always surprised, how some construct caricatures of a behaviour to then dismiss it or use the caricature for their own argument - for some reason not noticing, that they are using just that: a caricature and nothing that has something to do with reality.

So, I make it clear for everyone: The picture of someone watching TNG frame by frame, zooming into each frame to search for flaws and errors ... IS A CARICATURE. So stop basing your arguments against pointing out the flaws of Season 2 on this caricature image.
I think you're living up to a stereotype.

Some people are going frame by frame, pausing, enlarging and looking for "mistakes," no matter how slight.

I see nothing wrong with Bells' statement, which was qualified and not blanket or overreaching.
BriGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2012, 08:02 AM   #50
I-Am-Prepared!
Ensign
 
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

BriGuy wrote: View Post
Salinga wrote: View Post
Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
I think a some of shots in there are unfair, especially since many have been "frozen" and blown up.
WTF!? AFTER the mistakes have been noticed while watching it in normal speed on a normal TV!

I am always surprised, how some construct caricatures of a behaviour to then dismiss it or use the caricature for their own argument - for some reason not noticing, that they are using just that: a caricature and nothing that has something to do with reality.

So, I make it clear for everyone: The picture of someone watching TNG frame by frame, zooming into each frame to search for flaws and errors ... IS A CARICATURE. So stop basing your arguments against pointing out the flaws of Season 2 on this caricature image.
I think you're living up to a stereotype.

Some people are going frame by frame, pausing, enlarging and looking for "mistakes," no matter how slight.

I see nothing wrong with Bells' statement, which was qualified and not blanket or overreaching.
What you're missing is that the more minor problems, such as misaligned lighting passes, simply serve to illustrate and amplify the general lack of care and polish that has gone into the restoration of Season 2 in a broader sense. I'm hardly a videophile, but having received the Blu-ray set for Christmas, I've been struck by how incredibly inconsistent the work is, especially in fundamental areas such as grain-matching (or lack thereof), overuse of DNR, poor compositing (especially in terms of lighting and colour timing), low resolution textures and so forth. None of these problematic issues are present in CBS-D's wonderful work on Season 1. Pausing and zooming for minor flaws would be unnecessarily nit-picky if they were the only failings, but instead they're simply indicative of much bigger problems.

If it looks fine to you, then more power to you. But when the quality of the restoration changes from shot to shot, bottom line it takes me out of the episode. The restoration work is sub-par in both major and minor ways, and people have a perfectly legitimate right to be disappointed. I agree that a petition is pointless, but don't accuse people of identifying problems that don't exist - because they do.
I-Am-Prepared! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2012, 09:55 AM   #51
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

^

It's really just a matter of opinion. If the "quality" of the restoration upsets you, I suppose the thing to do is either, not buy the product, sign that petition, writer a letter of complaint to the appropriate parties, or some combination thereof. If the picture and sound quality enhances the episode for you, that's perfectly legit and your own opinion and I can see how this would set people with this viewpoint off.

To me the quality of the image and sound doesn't change the content of the episode. What would get me buying these sets more than anything else is new material. If they offered deleted or cut scenes from each episode, instead of a couple like they've been doing. Or even actors audio commentary with each episode. The extra interviews and extras they do offer, while interesting, aren't quite worth buying another set over. Especially when they end up on youtube anyways after a time.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2012, 10:03 AM   #52
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

.

.

CBS cares.

.

.

.

.
T'Girl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2012, 12:14 PM   #53
Dream
Admiral
 
Dream's Avatar
 
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
.

.

CBS cares.
.

.

.

.

About your money.

__________________
=)
Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2012, 12:52 PM   #54
Finn
Vice Admiral
 
Finn's Avatar
 
Location: In the MetroWest
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

I-Am-Prepared! wrote: View Post

What you're missing is that the more minor problems, such as misaligned lighting passes, simply serve to illustrate and amplify the general lack of care and polish that has gone into the restoration of Season 2 in a broader sense. I'm hardly a videophile, but having received the Blu-ray set for Christmas, I've been struck by how incredibly inconsistent the work is, especially in fundamental areas such as grain-matching (or lack thereof), overuse of DNR, poor compositing (especially in terms of lighting and colour timing), low resolution textures and so forth. None of these problematic issues are present in CBS-D's wonderful work on Season 1. Pausing and zooming for minor flaws would be unnecessarily nit-picky if they were the only failings, but instead they're simply indicative of much bigger problems.

If it looks fine to you, then more power to you. But when the quality of the restoration changes from shot to shot, bottom line it takes me out of the episode. The restoration work is sub-par in both major and minor ways, and people have a perfectly legitimate right to be disappointed. I agree that a petition is pointless, but don't accuse people of identifying problems that don't exist - because they do.
If you aren't a videophile, you wouldn't be using those terms like techobabble

grain-matching
Finn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2012, 01:42 PM   #55
I-Am-Prepared!
Ensign
 
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Star Grinch wrote: View Post
^

It's really just a matter of opinion. If the "quality" of the restoration upsets you, I suppose the thing to do is either, not buy the product, sign that petition, writer a letter of complaint to the appropriate parties, or some combination thereof. If the picture and sound quality enhances the episode for you, that's perfectly legit and your own opinion and I can see how this would set people with this viewpoint off.

To me the quality of the image and sound doesn't change the content of the episode. What would get me buying these sets more than anything else is new material. If they offered deleted or cut scenes from each episode, instead of a couple like they've been doing. Or even actors audio commentary with each episode. The extra interviews and extras they do offer, while interesting, aren't quite worth buying another set over. Especially when they end up on youtube anyways after a time.
For heaven's sake, I'm not "upset". I'm simply trying to make the point that those with concerns about the quality of the restoration are justified.
I-Am-Prepared! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2012, 01:46 PM   #56
I-Am-Prepared!
Ensign
 
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
I-Am-Prepared! wrote: View Post

What you're missing is that the more minor problems, such as misaligned lighting passes, simply serve to illustrate and amplify the general lack of care and polish that has gone into the restoration of Season 2 in a broader sense. I'm hardly a videophile, but having received the Blu-ray set for Christmas, I've been struck by how incredibly inconsistent the work is, especially in fundamental areas such as grain-matching (or lack thereof), overuse of DNR, poor compositing (especially in terms of lighting and colour timing), low resolution textures and so forth. None of these problematic issues are present in CBS-D's wonderful work on Season 1. Pausing and zooming for minor flaws would be unnecessarily nit-picky if they were the only failings, but instead they're simply indicative of much bigger problems.

If it looks fine to you, then more power to you. But when the quality of the restoration changes from shot to shot, bottom line it takes me out of the episode. The restoration work is sub-par in both major and minor ways, and people have a perfectly legitimate right to be disappointed. I agree that a petition is pointless, but don't accuse people of identifying problems that don't exist - because they do.
If you aren't a videophile, you wouldn't be using those terms like techobabble

grain-matching
Alas, another child of humankind with no grasp of nuance. I am not a "videophile", nor do I have the equipment or in-depth knowledge requisite, but I have a brain and am well-read and well-versed enough to be able to articulate my disappointment in specific terms. I appreciate your response, but next time, perhaps you could respond with substance. In the hope that it might further meaningful discourse. As opposed to emoticons and half-baked accusations.
I-Am-Prepared! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2012, 02:05 PM   #57
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

^

If you read past the one word of my post that... dare I say... upset you, you'd have read that I pretty much agreed with you about varying opinions having validity. I'm also not sure why you felt the need to write a whole paragraph insulting another person while citing you appreciate their response. What point exactly are you trying to make with that beyond general negativity?
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2012, 02:18 PM   #58
Solarbaby
Fleet Captain
 
Solarbaby's Avatar
 
Location: solarbaby
View Solarbaby's Twitter Profile
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

CBS promised us a hi def remastered version of a very dated show. It fell short of that. Its our money paying for this. Why accept less than the bar they set with season 1. Its all about the consumer.
__________________
Voice actors needed for Star Trek: Absolution animated series coming 2013

[URL="https://www.facebook.com/pages/STAR-TREK-Absolution/386331754783277?fref=ts[/URL]
Solarbaby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2012, 02:27 PM   #59
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Solarbaby wrote: View Post
CBS promised us a hi def remastered version of a very dated show. It fell short of that. Its our money paying for this. Why accept less than the bar they set with season 1. Its all about the consumer.
But it didn't fall short for everyone. I'm perfectly happy with the quality of season two.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29 2012, 02:32 PM   #60
marksound
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Planet Carcazed
Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Solarbaby wrote: View Post
CBS promised us a hi def remastered version of a very dated show. It fell short of that. Its our money paying for this. Why accept less than the bar they set with season 1. Its all about the consumer.
Actually, until the production cost has been recovered, it's CBS' money paying for it.

And I hate to burst your bubble, but it's not all about the consumer. It's about making a profit for the company and its shareholders.

If I were a betting man, I'd say that the majority of consumers won't have a problem with the quality. So if CBS can pull that off, mission accomplished.
marksound is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:57 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.