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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old December 27 2012, 02:19 PM   #31
Ugly Sweater
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Because it's the classic internet overreaction to things to start an online petition thinking it'll, somehow, get a business to care and make a change. The petition has no chance of working, no on-line petition for anything has worked. Companies just aren't that swayed by a list of mostly anonymous "signatures" on a website.

I see on-line petitions as not much more than someone pouting and stomping their feet. On-line petitions are another modern-day society release valve, sort of like the "close the doors" button on an elevator. It actually does nothing but it makes the user feel like they are in-charge of something. It's a placebo.
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Old December 27 2012, 04:46 PM   #32
DostoyevskyClone
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
Wow, folks, calm down. Signing NewHorizon's petition takes a teeny-weeny-eensy bit of effort. I imagine it took him no more than an hour to set it up. He lets it sit and gather what signatures it will and then, after some amount of time, sends it off to CBS. That is, cumulatively, a very small amount of effort expended on this project.

I doubt CBS will redo S2 anytime soon, but they might eventually, and will be more likely to do so at some point if there's a petition with however many fans nicely asking them to.

Furthermore, something like this reminds them that the fans do care about this stuff.

Lastly, this petition is polite. This petition does not say, "I'm a crazy Trekkie and I demand that you fix every last continuity error in episode 28, such as when the Yamato's dedication plate clearly does not say 'Yamato,' but is rather an obvious and lazy reuse of the Enterprise bridge set," à la Comic Book Guy. NewHorizon has written a polite, nice letter saying that we care about this and would appreciate CBS considering bringing S2 up to S1's quality. It's reasonable and is frankly the kind of letter I would write if I was disappointed with a product put out by a local, Mom-and-Pop store.

He freely admits that it probably won't go anywhere, but he wants to give it a shot, because he gives a damn.

Where exactly is the harm in that?
I agree. He did the hard work, so all people have to do is suggest changes to wording, etc. and then sign it. Even if CBS doesn't rerelease season two, it might give CBS pause when it comes to seasons four and six and the kind of oversight that should be given to those seasons.

Things that seem unlikely can and do happen - TNG is being remastered, let's remember that.

What are the alternatives? Vote with your wallet?
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Old December 27 2012, 07:20 PM   #33
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Thanks for the kind words.

The reason I opened this up on the forums was to let everyone here have a chance to contribute. I will have to scan through the thread again, but I don't recall seeing a single suggestion toward improving what I wrote for the petition description.

The floor is open and rather than debating whether or not a petition will work, I would love to get some feedback on how I might make the introductory text better.
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Old December 27 2012, 09:13 PM   #34
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
I doubt CBS will redo S2 anytime soon, but they might eventually, and will be more likely to do so at some point if there's a petition with however many fans nicely asking them to.
Well, since the amount of footage, that has to be redone, is limited (and thus the costs), it actually might happen. Maybe after season 7 has been done and the sfx teams have a very polished, quick workflow, they put the lacking scenes into the pipe again and put them on the next release of Season 2.

And as motivation I dont think they need a petition for that. Those involved into the remaster of TNG and like to watch the show themselves, are probably even more "pissed" than some of us are. Because they are professionals and they probably see even more errors than we do and are even more irritated by them. And not only out of personal drive to make a polished product from 1st season to the last, but also out of interest to make a little more money with this project, it would not surprise me if internally some already are pushing to polish Season 2 again.
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Old December 27 2012, 09:38 PM   #35
Finngle Bells
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Can someone post screenshots showing the examples of the problems? It's silly to ask for a petition when a lot of us probably haven't seen it..
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Old December 27 2012, 10:01 PM   #36
cbspock
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

I didn't see anything wrong with Season 2. It was a faithful representation of Season 2. It still looks better than it did when it first aired. They were not changing any of the effects as part of the restoration. I want the 4 episodes that were done with the original CGI Enterprise in the original series restoration redone before Season 2 of TNG.


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Old December 27 2012, 11:29 PM   #37
Savage Dragon
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
Can someone post screenshots showing the examples of the problems? It's silly to ask for a petition when a lot of us probably haven't seen it..
Just read through the S2 thread. There are plenty of examples in there.
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Old December 27 2012, 11:36 PM   #38
BriGuy
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Salinga wrote: View Post
Paper Moon wrote: View Post
I doubt CBS will redo S2 anytime soon, but they might eventually, and will be more likely to do so at some point if there's a petition with however many fans nicely asking them to.
Well, since the amount of footage, that has to be redone, is limited (and thus the costs), it actually might happen. Maybe after season 7 has been done and the sfx teams have a very polished, quick workflow, they put the lacking scenes into the pipe again and put them on the next release of Season 2.

And as motivation I dont think they need a petition for that. Those involved into the remaster of TNG and like to watch the show themselves, are probably even more "pissed" than some of us are. Because they are professionals and they probably see even more errors than we do and are even more irritated by them. And not only out of personal drive to make a polished product from 1st season to the last, but also out of interest to make a little more money with this project, it would not surprise me if internally some already are pushing to polish Season 2 again.
Errors are a part of life. Little to nothing is "perfect." Sometimes, mistakes are part of the "art." And it's also part of the history.

I highly, highly doubt there will be a second Season 2 release. It would not be profitable, which is the biggest motivating factor, of course. I'm sure there's many fans who won't buy it again. Heck, I'm sure there are DVD owners who don't feel like buying TNG again.
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Old December 27 2012, 11:40 PM   #39
BriGuy
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Star Grinch wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Star Grinch wrote: View Post
I dunno, I'm the guy who sees no point in buying the BluRay sets that are just slightly better than my current DVD sets.
I really wish people would quit saying this, it's simply a lie. Not only is the picture more detailed, the colors are truer and the sound is better.

You don't want to shell out for the upgraded sets? Fine. But it's pretty poor to be spreading out-and-out falsehoods.
Wow, so all your opinions are facts and anyone who disagrees with your opinion and has a different one is lying now? How objective of you.

As I said, it's slightly better. I'm sure you can point out all the small little details. To me it's quite insignificant and not worth shelling money for another set of DVDs when I have a perfectly good set now. If you want to, that is your prerogative, but it's pretty poor of you to be thinking your views are the only prevailing ones.
Do you have an HD TV and a bluray player?

The resolution is higher, the audio is better. A bluray disc holds much more data than a DVD, which is how you get that, when displayed properly. That's a fact.

I know it can be easy to have the "well DVD is good enough" perspective, especially if you haven't seen the high def image. I simply don't know where you are coming from.

When I bought my first HD TV just a year ago, I first watched DVDs on it on my old DVD player and thought it looked fantastic.

Then I got a bluray player and saw how much better it can look.

What you have often seems good enough until you see what you could have. I've had that happen with computers, too.
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Old December 27 2012, 11:42 PM   #40
BriGuy
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
Wow, folks, calm down. Signing NewHorizon's petition takes a teeny-weeny-eensy bit of effort. I imagine it took him no more than an hour to set it up. He lets it sit and gather what signatures it will and then, after some amount of time, sends it off to CBS. That is, cumulatively, a very small amount of effort expended on this project.

I doubt CBS will redo S2 anytime soon, but they might eventually, and will be more likely to do so at some point if there's a petition with however many fans nicely asking them to.

Furthermore, something like this reminds them that the fans do care about this stuff.

Lastly, this petition is polite. This petition does not say, "I'm a crazy Trekkie and I demand that you fix every last continuity error in episode 28, such as when the Yamato's dedication plate clearly does not say 'Yamato,' but is rather an obvious and lazy reuse of the Enterprise bridge set," à la Comic Book Guy. NewHorizon has written a polite, nice letter saying that we care about this and would appreciate CBS considering bringing S2 up to S1's quality. It's reasonable and is frankly the kind of letter I would write if I was disappointed with a product put out by a local, Mom-and-Pop store.

He freely admits that it probably won't go anywhere, but he wants to give it a shot, because he gives a damn.

Where exactly is the harm in that?
Exactly. It took little effort on his part, takes very little effort on our part, and so will merit very, very little attention from CBS.

It's just pointless.
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Old December 27 2012, 11:57 PM   #41
marksound
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

A petition is pointless.

The "Powers" would undoubtedly do extensive market research before jumping into any project. They will remaster and release what is profitable. Period.

The fans are always a factor in these things, as they are they market base, but if a project's expected cost-to-profit ratio isn't high enough, then it won't be pursued. That's a run-on sentence, and this one is here to fill out the paragraph.

I really wish the geek factor would ease up a bit, but after 40 years I don't think that's a possibility.
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Old December 28 2012, 01:48 AM   #42
thumbtack
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

After they see all the problems with Best of Both Worlds, Part II they will be a bit more sympathetic to your cause, hopeless though it is.

At the moment it's just the dreaded Season 2 that the B Team has put forth, so it's easy to be dismissive.
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Old December 28 2012, 01:57 AM   #43
Finngle Bells
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

TheSeeker wrote: View Post
Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
Can someone post screenshots showing the examples of the problems? It's silly to ask for a petition when a lot of us probably haven't seen it..
Just read through the S2 thread. There are plenty of examples in there.
Thanks for the heads up


I think a some of shots in there are unfair, especially since many have been "frozen" and blown up.

I looked at the screenshots at trekcore.com and they look amazing. However, there are screenshots that looks problematic. I'm not sure if it's worth having CBS go through the trouble. It's not exactly a pressing issue that society needs to solve.

I'll have to see the Blu-rays myself instead of looking at screenshots.
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Old December 28 2012, 01:59 AM   #44
BillJ
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

thumbtack wrote: View Post
After they see all the problems with Best of Both Worlds, Part II they will be a bit more sympathetic to your cause, hopeless though it is.

At the moment it's just the dreaded Season 2 that the B Team has put forth, so it's easy to be dismissive.
Rumor has it that CBS-Digital is handling both parts.
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Old December 28 2012, 05:47 AM   #45
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Re: Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

I hope so.
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