Minor BTTF Part Two question

[JarodRussell]

Gotham Central wrote:

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For any one who cares, here is a link to a reprint of all of the versions of Starlog's "The Other Marty McFly"

Anyone ever asked Zemeckis about that?

Gotham Central wrote:

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The raw materials for the first DeLorean in the 1955 that we see in BTTF 2 are from Earth 3.
Marty's DeLorean is from Earth 1 (which we never see again)
the Flying DeLorean is technically the version from Earth 2
The Burried DeLorean is from Earth 2 but on Earth 3

The Delorean Marty uses is from the original timeline/universe, just like Marty himself. Doc Brown v2 turns Delorean v1 into the Flying Delorean. Future Biff steals that v1 Flying Delorean and returns it, and eventually v1 gets hit by the lighting, gets buried in 1885, and is then sent back to the future using the train.

So Marty and the Delorean are the only things that don't change.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

However, what is the possible sixth one?

I'm gonna check. I know I've counted six at one point, but I might be mistaken! I'll be posting soon. But it may only be 5

[Donald Draper]

I remember those Starlog articles from when they were first published. They completely misunderstand how time travel works in the movies.

There is no Earth 2 or 3, etc. History is rewritten. That is the theme of the whole Trilogy. There is not another Marty McFly at the beginning of the movie at the Twin Pines. Its not the theory of traveling to a parallel universe. Or how would pictures from the future change? How would the Twin Pines Mall become the Lone Pines Mall?

[The Borgified Corpse]

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote:

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However it is intereting to note that, at one point in the trilogy,. there are five versions of the DeLorean (maybe six) that exist all at one time.

I believe the time is 1955.

Here:

The one Marty used in the first Back to the Future.
The one the old Biff used to give the young Biff the almanac.
The one Marty used in the Second Back to the Future to fix the alternate timeline.
The one hidden by Doc in 1885 and fixed by them later.
Also, considering the law of Thermodynamics, the ray materials for the original DeLorean exist in some form some time in 1955, not assembled,

When I realized that, that became my favorite movie revelation ever! (I also keep trying to figure out how to reconcile Biff's alternate 1985 with the universe from Watchmen. After all, in both of those universes, Nixon is still President in 1985.)

JarodRussell wrote:

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The Delorean Marty uses is from the original timeline/universe, just like Marty himself. Doc Brown v2 turns Delorean v1 into the Flying Delorean. Future Biff steals that v1 Flying Delorean and returns it, and eventually v1 gets hit by the lighting, gets buried in 1885, and is then sent back to the future using the train.

So Marty and the Delorean are the only things that don't change.

So, at some point, wouldn't there also be a non-flying, non-time traveling Delorean sitting around somewhere in the alternate 1985 because Doc was never able to build a time machine because he was committed to an insane asylum? Or would that have been destroyed/overwritten out of existence alongside the alternate Marty that was at a boarding school in Switzerland?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Probably the latter.

[MacLeod]

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote:

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Of course this movie probably has more questions raised about its plot than any other film in cinema history, but mine is simple.

Doc and Marty learn that Biff went back to November 5, 1955, so they go back to an early morning time on that day, hoping to arrive first. They hide the DeLorean behind the billboard.

But if memory serves, isn't the other DeLorean there at that same spot already, or won't it be there by the time dawn comes around, because the Marty from the first film needs a place to hide until he and Doc can get it later the next night to bring it back to the laboratory?

It' been a while since I saw BTT, Part II. But didn't they go back to 12th November 1955, and not the 5th?

[Trekker4747]

Here's sort of the thing with how we're shown Time-Travel works in Back to the Future movies. As said above there is no "Earth 2", "3", etc. because we're shown that it's always the same timeline it just gets altered. In fact you can even watch these alterations take place, as we're shown throughout the movies on photographs and newspapers changing to reflect the new timeline.

(This is also one of the beautiful things about Biff and the almanac, as he gets richer and his power has its own impacts on things any alterations he may make to the world as a result of his wealth, and thus could impact sporting events, the almanac will change to reflect this as well. The almanac will always be useful, unless Biff ever made a change that will impact the existence of it.)

But there IS a problem with the end of Back to the Future, the original movie, with as we're shown how time travel works. We know from observation of the movies that there's no such thing as the "predestination paradox." The past CAN be changed, as well as the future. We're shown evidence that the 1985 Marty arrives in at the end of the first movie is now different from the 1985 he left. (The Lone Pine Mall sign.) This means that the Marty we see leave this 1985 doesn't have to leave in order for the changes to take place. They've already happened. They're not dependent on HIM. They're dependent on "our" Marty and cannot be altered. Theoretically that Marty can travel back in time to witness the new story of how his parents met and fell and love. Which at the end of the movie he does.

Which means he SHOULD travel back to 1955 and crash into himself.

"But, Trekker!", you say, "that's the point! He's supposed to go back there and make the changes!"

No, no he's not. Again, all because of how we're shown how time travel works in the movies. The changes are dependent on our primary Marty, the one we follow throughout the trilogy. Not that Marty. So, yes, there is a "second" Marty McFly somewhere and he never returns. We can probably assume, I guess, that the timeline is able to "correct" itself in order to avoid universe-ending paradoxes. Meaning when the "real" Marty of the altered 1985 leaves the "present" he just vanishes, consumed by time. Possibly displaced by instantly appearing at the exact same time and place as "our" Marty. Since they can't appear at the exact same time one gets pushed out of the way into lord knows where and when. Which might make for an interesting story, actually.

So we have "our" Marty who we see arrive on the Twin Pines Ranch in 1955 and makes the changes he does, at that exact same instant a point in space we have the end of the movie Marty arriving at the ranch in 1955. They both can't appear at the very same time and place so one simply gets displaced. (I'm operating under the theory there has to be a "connection" between two time periods in order for time machines to work. Whether cosmic-strings or some other crazy thing, there needs to be something the time machine uses to travel between points in time.)

The time machine in the displacement suffers irreparable damage and arrives at some greatly distant time in the past (since that was the "direction" it was traveling.) And because we have to be SURE that things will unfold the way they "should" it's the better-off Marty that is displaced. So "our" Marty goes back thinking his father is a schmuck and knows the original story of how his parents met. The actual Marty of the altered-1985 would have heard a different story and may not have been as motivated to make the changes he needs to believing it's someone else who'll take care of, even more so considering his parents seemed to credit Biff with their meeting. (Oh, Biff, and his near-rape! Ha-ha!)

What time should he arrive in? What adventures would he have and deal with stuck in a time-period without Doc to repair the DeLorean.

[tighr]

I'll preface this by saying the BTTF trilogy is my favorite movie trilogy. I'm willing to follow the "rules" that each film/trilogy/universe/etc wants to set up for itself; for example "Terminator rules, that is, it's one way only and you can't go back. This is in contrast to, say, Back to the Future rules, where back and forth is possible, and, of course, Timerider rules, which are just plain silly."

That being said, one of the things that I was unable to rectify is how Marty (and Jennifer) are able to meet their future selves in 2015. By traveling into the future, they no longer exist in 1985, and therefore do not grow old to exist in 2015. You can't visit your future self, but you can visit your past self.

I don't accept the answer that the Starlog article posits, because of the fact that I don't agree with how he thinks alternate versions of Marty and Jennifer pop up to replace the ones that travel to the future. He also makes a lot of assumptions about the motives of Marty II.

[tomswift2002]

Actually, it would be possible for them to meet the future Marty and Jennifer, since from the future time point, Marty and Jen have already arrived back in 1985, thus completing the circuit, and just leaving the younger time travelling selves the opportunity to come forward and visit them without appearing to have disappeared.

As Captain Janeway said once, time travel gives her (and us) headaches.

[tighr]

tomswift2002 wrote:

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Actually, it would be possible for them to meet the future Marty and Jennifer, since from the future time point, Marty and Jen have already arrived back in 1985, thus completing the circuit, and just leaving the younger time travelling selves the opportunity to come forward and visit them without appearing to have disappeared.

Except, as pointed out in the article, Marty and Jennifer would have remembered their future visit and would be anticipating their future arrival (unless you explain it away by saying Jennifer was drugged out half the time and thought the whole thing was a dream).

In either event, I still maintain that going to the future effectively fast forwards time, and you don't exist in the interim. (i.e., if I freeze myself and wake up in the year 3000, everyone would think I just disappeared for 1000 years.)

I also believe that I could go back to the past and kill my past self (or my grandpa) and I would continue to exist, since I come from a place where my past self (or my grandpa) did not get killed by a time travelling me. If I were somehow able to then return to my own time and universe, it would be like I didn't exist (a la It's a Wonderful Life). The BTTF movies don't follow this logic, because Marty starts to disappear when it becomes likely that his parents don't get married.

One other complaint is that the life that Marty assumes when he goes to the new and improved 1985 (the one with a truck and successful parents and Biff is a mechanic), he's assuming the life of some other alternate Marty, one whom he knows nothing about. His family and friends would think its odd that he doesn't have the same knowledge and experiences as the alternate Marty. He'd show up to school the next day, and probably be in a whole bunch of different classes or something.

Anyway, like I said. These are my favorite movies. They don't have to make sense for me to enjoy them, and I still watch them all on the regular.

[Ethros]

I read that Starlog article- it all seems to hinge on this "figure" he thinks he can see near the start of the movie in the carpark.
Now I've probably seen BTTF over 20 times and have never noticed this, so I got out the blu ray and tried to spot what he's talking about...... jesus you could watch that film a thousand times and never notice that. I *think* there's someone there I guess, for about 2 frames. It's obviously certainly not intentional.

[JarodRussell]

With BTTF 1, we see the START of the loop. Ever since then, Marty always went back to 1955, helped his parents get together, and then returned. That 2nd Marty at Lone Pine Mall we see at the end of BTTF1 taking off with the Delorean, that's part of the never ending loop. That Marty had successful parents who met because of some mysterious guy called Marty helping them in 1955. So that 2nd Marty is trapped in a predestined loop.

But we, as the audience, always follow the very first Marty who started the predestination "paradox". He got the Delorean from a Doc Brown who never ever met Marty in 1955.

[Trekker4747]

But that's not how time-travel works in the movies, there ARE no pre-destination paradoxes. Mart didn't have to travel back into time that night the past wasn't dependent on him and his travel back into time ENDANGERED things. So the same would apply to "the other Marty McFly." He doesn't need to travel back in time, his past isn't dependent on him.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I looked for "the other Marty" on my blue ray, but I don't see him. Can someone use a screen shot and circle him?

[tighr]

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote:

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I looked for "the other Marty" on my blue ray, but I don't see him. Can someone use a screen shot and circle him?

He's not there.