"The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Set Harth]

Funny thing: there is no verbal response from Selina in the film, just an expression.

[Captrek]

"I downloaded a cam of TDKR, watched it over and over and over and over and over, and wrote this super long blog post to explain why it isn't worth my time."

[C_Miller]

Set Harth wrote:

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The name given in the credits is "Jen".

This is probably one of my biggest qualms with the Nolon trilogy. There's no reason for her to not be Holly Robinson other than Nolan trying to escape the comics. I feel the same way about John Blake not being Dick Grayson, but you can make a better argument in favor of Nolan for that one.

[JarodRussell]

What Nolan does is that he takes the essence of something, then writes the story and script based on that, and then during the making adds another layer of references.

It's like writing a renarration of something you saw or read ten years ago. The essential stuff you can remember and extrapolate on, but other detail is not important to the story you want to tell.

I like that approach for remakes and parodies very much.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

The reason I believe that John Blake wasn't named Dick Grayson or Tim Drake or anyone like that is because it's impossible, with the internet and buzz, to keep his identity Robin as a secret before the film's release (*ahem, John Harrison, ahem*) before it comes out.

[JarodRussell]

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote:

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The reason I believe that John Blake wasn't named Dick Grayson or Tim Drake or anyone like that is because it's impossible, with the internet and buzz, to keep his identity Robin as a secret before the film's release (*ahem, John Harrison, ahem*) before it comes out.

The other reason is that John Blake becomes the next BATMAN, not some version of Robin.

[C_Miller]

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote:

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The reason I believe that John Blake wasn't named Dick Grayson or Tim Drake or anyone like that is because it's impossible, with the internet and buzz, to keep his identity Robin as a secret before the film's release (*ahem, John Harrison, ahem*) before it comes out.

I don't necessarily think it needed to be a secret.

[Donald Draper]

JarodRussell wrote:

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The other reason is that John Blake becomes the next BATMAN, not some version of Robin.

He was alreadyRobin in TDKR . Just not a costumed sidekick. But still a young assistant, apprentice to Batman. Who is an orphan and knows Bruce is Batman. That sounds like Robin to me.

The ending is Robin will take over as the new Batman. Almost every story in the comics about Batman's successor has it being Robin. When you think about, Robin never was just a sidekick but Batman's apprentice in the comics too. The movie takes all those ideas just leaves out the costume.

The name "John Blake" is irrelevant. He only says that as his first name once at the end. Otherwise he is only called "Blake" through the whole film. Same with his name in the end credits.

Something I never seen anyone notice is the significance of how we learn his name is Robin. Bruce Wayne listed him in his will under that name. Which means Batman knows him as Robin. That is very symbolic of who the character is.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

C_Miller wrote:

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I don't necessarily think it needed to be a secret.

Of course it did. You remember how much attention every single detail of this film got attention before it came out. If any of the familiar Robin names got out, people would have spread it like WildFire, and read into every shot that the pre-release material had, whether it had that actor or not

[Set Harth]

C_Miller wrote:

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I feel the same way about John Blake not being Dick Grayson, but you can make a better argument in favor of Nolan for that one.

Well, yeah. Blake was never a Flying Wallenda, and was a cop before having anything to do with the Batcave.

[Donald Draper]

In Nolan's version of Batman a child sidekick would not have worked. But he still kept as many elements from the comics as possible. Remember Robin still met Bruce as a child. He was also inspired by the image of a heroic Batman. He became a cop partially because of Batman.

[Trekker4747]

Making his first name "Robin" was somewhat silly. But it was still a moment that made me smile. I dunno.

I watched the movie recently on BD, got it for Christmas, and really it's hard for me to get enthusiastic about it. There's just a LOT of problems in it that are hard to overlook. I can overlook the silly microwave/water boiling machine in the first movie, or how The Joker managed to two ferries with explosives and other contrivances in his plan(s) in the second one but the third movie, I think, asks way too much.

IIRC in the comics Bane spent MONTHS breaking down Batman, wearing him out, to buy himself time to discover his secrets, breaking people out of Blackgate/Arkham and so on. Here, until we're shown he's working with Talia, we're pretty much led to believe he just "knew" where to attack Batman's armory. The comic version strikes me as more interesting.

Then, somehow, Bane is able to plant all of these explosives all over the city in the concrete (what? The Gotham recently rebuild the football stadium and most of their centuries-old sewer tunnels? Gordon and the police just thought it was a good idea to send the vast majority of their officers into the sewers?

How DID Wayne get back into Gotham?

And, what, the government just pretty much let Gotham stay occupied under siege for MONTHS?! And kept sending in supplies and such? What?!

Much of this movie doesn't make sense, and really, as good as Hardy was in this he's just not nearly as interesting watch as the Joker and his Sean Connery-ian accent is hard to find intimidating with bulking hulk that he is. It's like watching Mike Tyson talk. You know he can turn you into pulp but you can't help but laugh.

And, really, would it have been that big of a deal to work the Venom into the story somehow? Couldn't it just have been a powerful artificial steroid Bane was using that was constantly being pumped into him through the mask rather than, "Uhhh... anesthetic. His face got jacked up.. or something."

And Wayne's recovery is pretty remarkable. Apparently all he needed was some fancy techno kneebrace to overcome the complete lack of cartilage in the joint. And, of course, it's hard to ignore him going into retirement for 8 years after only being Batman for ONE year. He retires because his girlfriend died, apparently more devastating and life-shattering than his parents being murdered right in front of him so he goes complete emo for 8 years.

There's just a lot of flaws in this movie and they don't all add up and leave me unsatisfied. I enjoyed it, it's "good" and certainly better than the other Batman franchise but hardly think it breaks the "curse" of the third superhero movie always being the worst one. (Of course it's leaps and bounds better than Batman Forever, Spider-Man 3 or Superman 3.)

[Set Harth]

Trekker4747 wrote:

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Here, until we're shown he's working with Talia, we're pretty much led to believe he just "knew" where to attack Batman's armory.

...but now you know better, right?

Trekker4747 wrote:

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How DID Wayne get back into Gotham?

He entered the cave system connected to the Batcave, got in the Bat, and flew into the city.

Or he snuck in with the food shipments.

Trekker4747 wrote:

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And, what, the government just pretty much let Gotham stay occupied under siege for MONTHS?!

The presumed alternative was kaboom.

Trekker4747 wrote:

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so he goes complete emo

It's all Obi-Wan's fault! He was holding him back!

[Trekker4747]

...but now you know better, right?

Now that I think about it, how did TALIA know about the armory? It was off the books and she presumably knew about it BEFORE Wayne Enterprises was signed back to her.

He entered the cave system connected to the Batcave, got in the Bat, and flew into the city.

Then Bane sucked at closing off the city and the military sucked at getting INTO the city.

The presumed alternative was kaboom.

Say New York City is seized by terrorists in a similar fashion. They've blown up all of the bridges and tunnels, save one, for supply shipments. They've managed to neutralize local law enforcement -as well as any military stations/personnel that may be in the city- released prisoners and simply have small army of people to hold the city. They threaten to blow up the city with a nuke should anyone leave or enter the city.

Do you REALLY think the President, Congress, the military and, hell, the American people are just going to shrug and say, "Whadda you gonna do?! Send them a truck full of food every couple of weeks and we'll call it good."

[Set Harth]

Trekker4747 wrote:

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Then Bane sucked at closing off the city and the military sucked at getting INTO the city.

Yes, the fact that Bane did not manage to encase Gotham in a giant impenetrable sphere does indeed mean that he sucked. As for the military, kaboom.

Trekker4747 wrote:

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Do you REALLY think the President, Congress, the military and, hell, the American people are just going to shrug and say, "Whadda you gonna do?! Send them a truck full of food every couple of weeks and we'll call it good."

In the real world? I have no idea. In any event, kaboom. ( Which would involve political fallout if not the other kind. )

And I don't see what the attitude of "the American people" has to do with it. So what if they don't like it? The vast majority would just bitch and complain, and any few that tried to get in would be stopped by the military.