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Old December 26 2012, 07:39 PM   #421
JarodRussell
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Gingerbread Girl wrote: View Post
My aunt is a crazy tea party wingnut and bought guns because of the "shaira law" and Muslims taking over the country. I just hope none of her grandkids or step grandkids ever get a hold of them...
Don't know what's more dangerous, the guns or the views.

Although. The views aren't that dangerous without the guns.
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Old December 26 2012, 08:16 PM   #422
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

SmoothieX wrote: View Post
Does paranoia count as mental illness?

I saw my cousin yesterday for Xmas. Apparently, she's going off the deep end with this fiscal cliff, bad economy, tightening of the middle class, etc. and is convinced her home will be targeted when the 'class warfare' breaks out, as they have money and the husband is away all week.

She's talking a loaded weapon with a 30 shot clip in just about every room. Not locked away, not keeping the bullets separate from the guns, and debating not keeping the safety on. Her though is optimize response time if soemeone breaks in.

She also has 3 young kids who will be bound to find them when they are snooping around to see what Santa or the Easter bunny will bring. There's just so much that can go wrong. I can totally imagine junior finding it, showing it off to his friends after school one day, and them fooling around with it just right and someone gets shot.

This doesn't address mass murdering crazies, but it's on topic. A lot of gun related injuries/death could be avoided by a little responsibility and safety.
When I was growing up, my grandfather kept a shotgun in the corner of the living room. None of us kids ever played with it. None of us were ever even tempted to play with it. When I was growing up, my parents kept their guns in their room. They weren't locked up. But neither me or my brother ever played with them. Why, because we were taught from day one that they were not toys, that if we ever touched them without permission it would resault in an ass beating, and that if we did want to "look at them" we had to ask and an adult would show them to us.

Hell, even when we were given toy guns, we were given the same "rules" as real guns. One, never point it at anything/another person in less you intend to kill/hurt it/them. Two, always treat a gun as if it is loaded. Three, never put your finger on the trigger untill you intend to fire. And four, always know what is behind where you are going to shoot.
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Old December 27 2012, 03:35 AM   #423
Locutus of Bored
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

NightmareB4Holmes wrote: View Post
SmoothieX wrote: View Post
Does paranoia count as mental illness?

I saw my cousin yesterday for Xmas. Apparently, she's going off the deep end with this fiscal cliff, bad economy, tightening of the middle class, etc. and is convinced her home will be targeted when the 'class warfare' breaks out, as they have money and the husband is away all week.

She's talking a loaded weapon with a 30 shot clip in just about every room. Not locked away, not keeping the bullets separate from the guns, and debating not keeping the safety on. Her though is optimize response time if soemeone breaks in.

She also has 3 young kids who will be bound to find them when they are snooping around to see what Santa or the Easter bunny will bring. There's just so much that can go wrong. I can totally imagine junior finding it, showing it off to his friends after school one day, and them fooling around with it just right and someone gets shot.

This doesn't address mass murdering crazies, but it's on topic. A lot of gun related injuries/death could be avoided by a little responsibility and safety.
When I was growing up, my grandfather kept a shotgun in the corner of the living room. None of us kids ever played with it. None of us were ever even tempted to play with it. When I was growing up, my parents kept their guns in their room. They weren't locked up. But neither me or my brother ever played with them. Why, because we were taught from day one that they were not toys, that if we ever touched them without permission it would resault in an ass beating, and that if we did want to "look at them" we had to ask and an adult would show them to us.

Hell, even when we were given toy guns, we were given the same "rules" as real guns. One, never point it at anything/another person in less you intend to kill/hurt it/them. Two, always treat a gun as if it is loaded. Three, never put your finger on the trigger untill you intend to fire. And four, always know what is behind where you are going to shoot.
That's a fascinating anecdote about your early life on the Ponderosa there, Hoss, and while that is all good advice, that advice plus keeping your guns locked up around children like a responsible adult is even better.
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Old December 27 2012, 05:16 AM   #424
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
My sympathies. I've known a couple of people who keep guns because they too believe that Big Gubmint Socialists and New World Order types will one day come to strip them of their liberties. It's ridiculous.

We live in one of the most stable and arguably the most successful democracy in all of human history and yet we have a delusional subculture who thinks police or soldiers are going to smash down their doors and confiscate their means of defending themselves as part of some sinister plot to shred the Constitution. Some are misguided and misinformed. Others aren't exactly right in the head. Still others are just plain stupid and probably shouldn't be trusted with the instructions on a shirt.
The poor ass way the American revolution is taught is a great help to the delusional sense of citizens with arms is of necessity. The mythologizing of the power of citizen arms comes greatly from the Revolution, but really the militia elements were militarily useless for the most part. The distance over which the British had to fight and the size of the land they were trying to quell in short order were of far more reason for the British failure to crush the revolution. The militias were always under funded and of low morale when fighting away from their home territories. Yet, today the myth of Concord and Lexington has long over shadowed the truth that they were insignificant on the field and overall, lacking a Continental Army, the colonies would have fallen to the British forces in pretty quick order.
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Last edited by Gov Kodos; December 27 2012 at 05:27 AM.
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Old December 27 2012, 05:20 AM   #425
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

NightmareB4Holmes wrote: View Post
SmoothieX wrote: View Post
Does paranoia count as mental illness?

I saw my cousin yesterday for Xmas. Apparently, she's going off the deep end with this fiscal cliff, bad economy, tightening of the middle class, etc. and is convinced her home will be targeted when the 'class warfare' breaks out, as they have money and the husband is away all week.

She's talking a loaded weapon with a 30 shot clip in just about every room. Not locked away, not keeping the bullets separate from the guns, and debating not keeping the safety on. Her though is optimize response time if soemeone breaks in.

She also has 3 young kids who will be bound to find them when they are snooping around to see what Santa or the Easter bunny will bring. There's just so much that can go wrong. I can totally imagine junior finding it, showing it off to his friends after school one day, and them fooling around with it just right and someone gets shot.

This doesn't address mass murdering crazies, but it's on topic. A lot of gun related injuries/death could be avoided by a little responsibility and safety.
When I was growing up, my grandfather kept a shotgun in the corner of the living room. None of us kids ever played with it. None of us were ever even tempted to play with it. When I was growing up, my parents kept their guns in their room. They weren't locked up. But neither me or my brother ever played with them. Why, because we were taught from day one that they were not toys, that if we ever touched them without permission it would resault in an ass beating, and that if we did want to "look at them" we had to ask and an adult would show them to us.

Hell, even when we were given toy guns, we were given the same "rules" as real guns. One, never point it at anything/another person in less you intend to kill/hurt it/them. Two, always treat a gun as if it is loaded. Three, never put your finger on the trigger untill you intend to fire. And four, always know what is behind where you are going to shoot.
Interesting. I just find that verbiage interesting.
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Old December 27 2012, 06:14 AM   #426
Data Holmes
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

indranee wrote: View Post
NightmareB4Holmes wrote: View Post
SmoothieX wrote: View Post
Does paranoia count as mental illness?

I saw my cousin yesterday for Xmas. Apparently, she's going off the deep end with this fiscal cliff, bad economy, tightening of the middle class, etc. and is convinced her home will be targeted when the 'class warfare' breaks out, as they have money and the husband is away all week.

She's talking a loaded weapon with a 30 shot clip in just about every room. Not locked away, not keeping the bullets separate from the guns, and debating not keeping the safety on. Her though is optimize response time if soemeone breaks in.

She also has 3 young kids who will be bound to find them when they are snooping around to see what Santa or the Easter bunny will bring. There's just so much that can go wrong. I can totally imagine junior finding it, showing it off to his friends after school one day, and them fooling around with it just right and someone gets shot.

This doesn't address mass murdering crazies, but it's on topic. A lot of gun related injuries/death could be avoided by a little responsibility and safety.
When I was growing up, my grandfather kept a shotgun in the corner of the living room. None of us kids ever played with it. None of us were ever even tempted to play with it. When I was growing up, my parents kept their guns in their room. They weren't locked up. But neither me or my brother ever played with them. Why, because we were taught from day one that they were not toys, that if we ever touched them without permission it would resault in an ass beating, and that if we did want to "look at them" we had to ask and an adult would show them to us.

Hell, even when we were given toy guns, we were given the same "rules" as real guns. One, never point it at anything/another person in less you intend to kill/hurt it/them. Two, always treat a gun as if it is loaded. Three, never put your finger on the trigger untill you intend to fire. And four, always know what is behind where you are going to shoot.
Interesting. I just find that verbiage interesting.
Over thought it, then edited it into a mess...
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Old December 27 2012, 07:55 AM   #427
indranee
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

No, I meant that as children to know that this is a lethal weapon that you can only point at and use at someone you may want to kill.

That whole idea of knowing that you may WANT TO KILL.

I mean, we *are*, after all, a naturally carnivorous, hunting species. And you can see that tendency to "eliminate" in even babies.

I just found that directive you had as a child interesting and illuminating.
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Old December 27 2012, 10:37 AM   #428
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Speaking from my own experience as a kid in the eighties, my parents allowed me to have toy guns and play "war," "Special Forces," and "hunt the enemy" to my heart's content whenever I felt the need to get together with friends or my cousins and do so....act out the whole "boy with toys" thing.

However....

They countered the plastic rat-a-tat-tat plastic Uzis, M-16s and pistols they allowed me to have with constructive learning toys, books, art supplies and video games (Atari, Colecovision, the earliest Nintendo system) so as to encourage (mostly) peaceful creativity, thinking and problem solving skills. Yes I pointed my trusty plastic Uzi that made the loud rat-a-tat-tat when you pulled the trigger at my cousins and shouted "gotcha! Fall down, I nailed you!" But when that was done I came inside and drew. Sketched. Wrote short stories. Read books. Comic books. Learned history and geography. Played video games (the most violent of which in 1985 wasn't even as raunchy or bloody as two seconds in one of the Grand Theft Auto franchise). Watched PBS. Studied insects.

The point: my parents knew real guns were not to be trifled with and I was taught that "you don't point a gun at someone unless you really mean it" and most violence in the real world was brutal and pointless, but they taught me context and counterbalanced the rough-and-tumble war and shooting toys and games of the '80s with things that were creative and intellectual in nature.

I think that's always been the problem with many parents whether they mean well and just don't know how to handle their kids or are just damned lousy moms and dads who have no real business having offspring: correct context and balancing their children's roughhousing and play violence with things that are more constructive and creative. Let them be kids and be prepubescent and pubescent males, but temper the rambunctiousness and shoot-'em-up with pursuits that allow them to express their own individual talents.

You can't really stop most little boys from being little boys, but you can show them that there's a whole lot more in this world than guns and violence.
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Old December 27 2012, 06:10 PM   #429
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

@neiltyson:

In Walmart, America's largest gun seller, you can buy an assault rifle. But company policy bans pop music with curse words.
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Old December 27 2012, 06:32 PM   #430
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Speaking from my own experience as a kid in the eighties, my parents allowed me to have toy guns and play "war," "Special Forces," and "hunt the enemy" to my heart's content whenever I felt the need to get together with friends or my cousins and do so....act out the whole "boy with toys" thing.

However....

They countered the plastic rat-a-tat-tat plastic Uzis, M-16s and pistols they allowed me to have with constructive learning toys, books, art supplies and video games (Atari, Colecovision, the earliest Nintendo system) so as to encourage (mostly) peaceful creativity, thinking and problem solving skills. Yes I pointed my trusty plastic Uzi that made the loud rat-a-tat-tat when you pulled the trigger at my cousins and shouted "gotcha! Fall down, I nailed you!" But when that was done I came inside and drew. Sketched. Wrote short stories. Read books. Comic books. Learned history and geography. Played video games (the most violent of which in 1985 wasn't even as raunchy or bloody as two seconds in one of the Grand Theft Auto franchise). Watched PBS. Studied insects.
This is similar to the approach my folks took. My mom used to hunt with her old man quite a bit growing up, and had a shotgun in her closet. She made no secrets about it. It was also disassembled and the bullets were kept somewhere else.

My grandparents had a good sized piece of land in the Catskills, so occasionally our family and my uncle's (her brother) would visit for the weekend. The two of them would get together and shoot tin cans off a fence post. They dragged me and my cousin (the one noted above, to no avail I guess) out a few times and demonstrated how to safely handle things. It was very slow and deliberate. When I started learning how to shoot last summer, it was on an air rifle (you'll put your eye out!) for crying out loud.

My parents didn't care if I played Laser Tag or Super Soaker or anything like that, but they too disapproved of authentic looking toys or shoot 'em up games.
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Old December 27 2012, 10:30 PM   #431
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
Along the lines of what Squiggy said, D.C. isn't isolated in the middle of nowhere with a colossal moat full of genetically engineered super crocs and heavily armed Mad Max wasteland survivalists patrolling the territory on the opposite side.
But if it was, could we tell the Congressman that this was their way out of town for the holidays? It'd make for interesting reality show!
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Old December 27 2012, 10:33 PM   #432
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

I wouldn't object to super crocs getting some members of Congress because of this whole embarrassing Fiscal Cliff fiasco.
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Old December 29 2012, 05:10 AM   #433
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Typical gun control argument. The antis say "Criminals will always be able to get guns. The pros say "We gotta do something and the guns (or maybe the clips) seem the logical place to start.

The problem is that there is no typical case. The Newtown shooter got his guns at home. The Aurora shooter, who had no criminal record, got his at a sporting goods store.

Nobody with a gun stopped the Tuscon shooter, even though Ariz is, as far as I know, an "open-carry" state. He was tackled as he paused to reload.

I think that if any of these loonies had to buy on a "black-market", the actual criminals behind those enterprises would have kicked their butts and stolen their money.

By the way, there was recently a shooting at a police station. Maybe they should post armed guards there, oh, wait a minute.

There has also been talk here of allowing people with guns into libraries, libraries for crying out loud. No word on if the library could at least mandate use of a silencer.
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Old December 29 2012, 05:12 AM   #434
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

(*Rimshot*)

So where do you stand on the matter? Pro? Anti? Undecided?
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Old December 29 2012, 02:25 PM   #435
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Gun Proponents wrote:
Criminals will always be able to get guns.
Criminals will also always be able to get explosives, or even create them themselves. And if they can't create them themselves, they use airplanes. Is that the reason and excuse to legalize explosives and make them available for the average Joe? Perhaps at Walmart?
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