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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old December 25 2012, 06:18 PM   #886
RandyS
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Captain Claus wrote: View Post
RandyS wrote: View Post
cbspock wrote: View Post
The tracks for the Man Trap, man they are depressing and tedious to listen to. It is fun just listening to the cues and scenes they were used for just pop into your head.


-Chris
I don't know about depressing, but if by tedious, you mean repetitive, then yeah, I agree.
I agree that The Man Trap can be a difficult listen, but hearing it away from the episode really shows how Courage nailed it. The script was so-so, but the music played up the spookiness, eerie feelings and the sheer tragedy of the story. What was downplayed in the episode to a degree (the end of an intelligent species) is made to be incredibly sad by the music. There is hopelessness all over the score and while it's not a fun happy time at the CD player, it does effectively make the mood of the episode; heavy, scary, crushing. It's repetitive because that's what happens with a lot of TV scoring. The fact that it happens so seldom says a lot about the composers, but for the most part, a complete TV score is a study in patient listening.

The Man Trap is a solid, incredible score for what it accomplishes. I've always loved it, but now I truly appreciate it. Top marks.
Oh, I wasn't putting it down, just saying I found it repetitive is all.
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Old December 26 2012, 03:09 AM   #887
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Which is cool. Just wanted to show my own appreciation. Actually, outside if I Mudd and some of the more shrill library cues, I'm digging the whole library.
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Old December 26 2012, 03:27 PM   #888
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

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I'm finding that listening to the individual scores is somehow more evocative of the episodes than watching the actual episodes is, paradoxical though that sounds.
I find this statement to be true.
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Old December 26 2012, 04:39 PM   #889
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

What is really cool is how all the different compositions /composers all blended together due to all the tracking in episodes to create "Star Trek" the original series' sound. I think that is what helped a lot of these themes become so well known. Sort of how it worked for the Star Wars films, where Williams carried over themes and cues for all 6 films. in the Star Trek movie series we sort of had the same thing with Star Trek 2 + 3, and the Goldsmith scores.

This is completely missing from TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT. TNG had so many bland scores that there are only a handful of standout cues... Inner Light, Booby Trap, Best of Both Worlds, Tin Man.

-Chris
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Old December 26 2012, 05:16 PM   #890
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

cbspock wrote: View Post
This is completely missing from TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT.
Not completely. It took a while for TNG to settle into the "wallpaper music" the later series are known for. Dennis McCarthy had a Picard motif that he used frequently throughout the first three seasons (perhaps most memorably in the climax of "Yesterday's Enterprise"), and Ron Jones had recurring motifs for the Klingons (based on Goldsmith's Klingon motif) and the Romulans, plus a recurring Enterprise motif that he introduced once he decided the show had established its own identity and needed to move beyond the Courage fanfare and the Goldsmith TMP theme.

Also, Jay Chattaway had a recurring motif for Species 8472 on VGR.
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Old December 26 2012, 11:43 PM   #891
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Christopher wrote: View Post
cbspock wrote: View Post
This is completely missing from TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT.
Dennis McCarthy had a Picard motif that he used frequently throughout the first three seasons (perhaps most memorably in the climax of "Yesterday's Enterprise"), and Ron Jones had recurring motifs for the Klingons (based on Goldsmith's Klingon motif) and the Romulans, plus a recurring Enterprise motif that he introduced once he decided the show had established its own identity and needed to move beyond the Courage fanfare and the Goldsmith TMP theme.
Listening to the TOS collection I'm struck by how we were deprived of a distinctive Romulan theme when Steiner reused (either by choice or not) many of his "Balance of Terror" motifs in "Mirror, Mirror" and Courage didn't use any of it in "The Enterprise Incident." It wasn't until Ron Jones came up with a great Romulan motif that stuck in TNG "The Neutral Zone" (but I'm not sure how many other TNG-era composers carried it over for their Romulan shows). And Steiner's great Klingon themes from "Elaan of Troyius" -- although IMHO an improvement over Fried's themes in "Friday's Child" -- probably came too late in the series run to make a lasting impression, so we got Goldsmith's long-lived Klingon theme in TMP that lasted for over 20 years (which Ron Jones -- to his credit -- revisited at least once ("The Defector") rather than coming up with something new.
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Old December 27 2012, 12:04 AM   #892
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Joe_Atari wrote: View Post
Listening to the TOS collection I'm struck by how we were deprived of a distinctive Romulan theme when Steiner reused (either by choice or not) many of his "Balance of Terror" motifs in "Mirror, Mirror" and Courage didn't use any of it in "The Enterprise Incident."
Although, as I've pointed out before, Courage's theme for the Romulan Commander in TEI is pretty much a variation on Steiner's Romulan theme. Structurally they're almost identical -- a held note, then three descending pairs with a bit of a pause after the second one and the third pair ending on the same note as the first, then the same three pairs repeating, etc.


It wasn't until Ron Jones came up with a great Romulan motif that stuck in TNG "The Neutral Zone" (but I'm not sure how many other TNG-era composers carried it over for their Romulan shows).
None. Jones was the only one to use his Romulan theme. Indeed, the only time any TNG composer reused a motif by a different TNG composer (not counting Courage and Goldsmith) was in "Lessons," when McCarthy reused Chattaway's "Inner Light" motif. But that was source music rather than incidental.

...so we got Goldsmith's long-lived Klingon theme in TMP that lasted for over 20 years (which Ron Jones -- to his credit -- revisited at least once ("The Defector") rather than coming up with something new.
I just checked the Ron Jones set's liner notes, and there's no credit for Goldsmith's themes being used in "The Defector," or for Goldsmith's Klingon motif being used anywhere. What Jones did in "Heart of Glory" was to write his own Klingon motif that was a close pastiche of Goldsmith's, built around the same perfect fifth and some of the same percussion rhythms and so forth, and it was that motif that he used in several Klingon-related episodes. Goldsmith's was the same rising fifth three times in a row; Jones did the rising fifth with the second note held, then a falling fifth shifted up a note, then the rising fifth again.

Goldsmith got to create a Romulan theme too, and a good one, but not until Nemesis, his last Trek score and one of the last scores of his life. So it hasn't been used since.

We know there are going to be Klingons in Star Trek Into Darkness, so there's a good chance Michael Giacchino will come up with a Klingon motif to add to the catalog. I'm not sure whether he had a Romulan motif in the previous film, or just a Nero-specific motif.
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Old December 27 2012, 01:29 AM   #893
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

The Romulan theme would be reused as tracked music without the Romulans anyway, negating it as their theme long before Steiner reused it in the second season. That's the pitfalls of having a library instead of commissioning fresh scores for every episode. On Lost in Space, the robot had its own theme by John Williams. They tried to hold onto it as a specific character theme, but eventually, they tracked it to fit any action scene. It was no longer a theme for the robot, but a catch all action riff.
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Old December 27 2012, 01:39 AM   #894
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Also, the Romulans weren't used often enough to really have a recurring theme. "Balance of Terror" and "The Enterprise Incident" were the only episodes where they appeared as characters, and their ships also appeared in "The Deadly Years" (scored mainly with "Doomsday Machine" stock, IIRC).
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Old December 27 2012, 03:29 AM   #895
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

I remember very little---practically next to nothing---memorable from contemporary Trek scores. There are a scant few riffs I recall from TNG, but really nothing else.
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Old December 27 2012, 03:33 AM   #896
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

There's actually some good music in Enterprise. The restrictions were being lifted and the composers were able to do more interesting things, though of course nothing like TOS had.
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Old December 27 2012, 03:36 AM   #897
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Christopher wrote: View Post
There's actually some good music in Enterprise. The restrictions were being lifted and the composers were able to do more interesting things, though of course nothing like TOS had.
Well since I couldn't stand the series and will never watch any of it ever again I won't be experiencing the music.
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Old December 27 2012, 04:09 AM   #898
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

That's a shame, there really were some great scores in there. Two by Brian Tyler come to mind, but there were plenty more.

Still, the scores weren't as in your face as the old 60's music. You can't help but notice the original series music, like it or not.
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Old December 27 2012, 04:14 AM   #899
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Christopher wrote: View Post
There's actually some good music in Enterprise. The restrictions were being lifted and the composers were able to do more interesting things, though of course nothing like TOS had.
You're being wildly generous.

There really is no comparison between the music from "contemporary" Trek television and TOS.

Plus, it's pointless to compare, as times and tastes have changed so much.

It gets to the point. The final arbiter in TOS music was Bob Justman. He hired and fired the composers, and it was he who decided that a particular episode needed a certain composer. If he could afford one.

We owe him.
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Old December 27 2012, 04:48 AM   #900
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Esteban wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
There's actually some good music in Enterprise. The restrictions were being lifted and the composers were able to do more interesting things, though of course nothing like TOS had.
You're being wildly generous.

There really is no comparison between the music from "contemporary" Trek television and TOS.
Which is why I explicitly said "though of course nothing like TOS had." So no, I am not "being wildly generous," because I was not comparing the two in the first place. Next time read more carefully.
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