possible reason we never seen the phaser rifle after w.n.m.h.g.b.

[Nerys Myk]

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote:

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That would make sense only if phasers and phase pistols weren't shown to be exactly the same.*



*excepting the vanishing/here again abilities like wide beam and insanely high power settings. But just like we're supposed to pretend "The Cage" weapons were phasers, in DS9's "The Seige of AR-558" we're supposed to pretend wide beam and building-destroying settings don't exist.

Lasers and phasers where shown to be exactly the same too. They're rayguns, they shoot energy beams and people fall over. Any actual differences are hand waves.

[Ronald Held]

Maybe in the enlightened 24th century there is no disintegration setting?

[stationzebra]

please keep in mind that i go by tos and ng points of view. i know that they have phase pistols in enterprise but i did not watch it all that often, also im aware of the real world reasons that gene did not like the name or look of the old pistols or the communicators but its still good to get all points of view.do most members look at enterprise as being accurate history to tos?

[ATimson]

Ronald Held wrote:

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Maybe in the enlightened 24th century there is no disintegration setting?

First Contact indicates otherwise (when Picard and Lily are in the Jeffries tubes).

[1001001]

stationzebra wrote:

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yes thank you kodos that had been confusing me, i was thinking that the reserve belt packs were mounted on top like phaser one while being able to use the handle, i see that i just could not see them well in omega.can you post that link in my phaser rifle thread?

http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWground-oldphas.html

[King Daniel into Darkness]

stationzebra wrote:

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do most members look at enterprise as being accurate history to tos?

Enterprise ignored elements of "Balance of Terror" (Romulan cloaking being an amazing new thing, details 22nd century starship technology) and the Next Generation episode "First Contact" (details of Klingon/human first contact)

But you have to remember, TOS often ignored elements of earlier TOS - like Kirk's middle initial changing, antimatter going from starship fuel ("The Naked Now") to something with the ability to destroy everything, everywhere all at once ("The Alternative Factor") and back again. Shuttle craft not existing when it's convenient to the story ("The Enemy Within"), Vulcan mating going from an extreme taboo ("Amok Time") to a conversation piece ("The Cloud Minders") etc. and I think it's kind of strange that fans tend to gloss over this stuff when pointing out the changes made to TOS in other shows.

[C.E. Evans]

The thing about TOS was that a lot of the established Star Trek concepts were being invented as they went along. Some things were altered as the series was taking shape--Starfleet and the Federation were among several concepts that weren't there in the beginning, but they became retconned in later as being such as the Star Trek Universe became more established. It's easy to look at TOS and say it contradicted itself at various points in the beginning, but TOS was very much a work in progress back then. It became more cohesive later on, IMO.

But some initial TOS concepts weren't so readily dismissed after the series ended, while others were. The United Earth Space Probe Agency (which eventually was renamed Starfleet Command) continued to appear after those early TOS episodes in both VOY and ENT, and lasers were continued to be used as weapons--albeit less powerful than phasers--by several alien cultures in various episodes of TNG.

[Nerys Myk]

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote:

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Enterprise ignored elements of "Balance of Terror" (Romulan cloaking being an amazing new thing, details 22nd century starship technology) and the Next Generation episode "First Contact" (details of Klingon/human first contact)

But you have to remember, TOS often ignored elements of earlier TOS - like Kirk's middle initial changing, antimatter going from starship fuel ("The Naked Now") to something with the ability to destroy everything, everywhere all at once ("The Alternative Factor") and back again. Shuttle craft not existing when it's convenient to the story ("The Enemy Within"), Vulcan mating going from an extreme taboo ("Amok Time") to a conversation piece ("The Cloud Minders") etc. and I think it's kind of strange that fans tend to gloss over this stuff when pointing out the changes made to TOS in other shows.

ENT and TNGs "First Contact" work fine together.

• Centuries Ago. check. ENT takes place two hundred years prior to TNG
• Disastrerous. check. Archer pretty much screwed the pooch every time he met a Klingon.
• Decades of war. Its possible as we have large periods of "history" that are unaccounted for. Who know what trouble Archer may have caused then.
  

We also don't know who made first contact with the Klingons. It might have been the Vulcans before the Federation was formed. IIRC, they have surveillance before contact policy. They might have introduced the policy into the Federation and Starfleet.

Also, the guy who wrote the line in "First Contact" said it was fine.

[Ronald Held]

ATimson wrote:

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First Contact indicates otherwise (when Picard and Lily are in the Jeffries tubes).

I did not recall that. Is that for hand or rifle phasers?

[1001001]

Ronald Held wrote:

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I did not recall that. Is that for hand or rifle phasers?

It was a hand phaser.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...res_Picard.jpg

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: Maximum setting. If you had fired this, you would have vaporized me.
Lily Sloane: [sheepish] It's my first ray gun.

[RAMA]

Even in 1965 those phaser rifles looked kind of silly.

[T'Girl]

ATimson wrote:

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First Contact indicates otherwise (when Picard and Lily are in the Jeffries tubes).

Actually, when they were in the chamber with the view of Earth, it was after Picard demonstrated the force field that Lily surrendered the phaser.

1001001 wrote:

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We also don't know who made first contact with the Klingons. It might have been the Vulcans before the Federation was formed.

This, Picard was more than most a "Federation Citizen." When he spoke of our disastrous first contact with the Klingon, he wouldn't automatically have been referring the Humans.

Decades of war. Its possible as we have large periods of "history" that are unaccounted for. Who know what trouble Archer may have caused then.

The decades of war might have been during his time as President of the Federation. he would have been in a position to have caused even more trouble there, than when he commanded a single ship.

C.E. Evans wrote:

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The United Earth Space Probe Agency (which eventually was renamed Starfleet Command)

We know through ST: Enterprise and Kirk's statement that United Earth Space Probe Agency existed, and did so through the mid 23rd century (and maybe beyond that).

[1001001]

Merry Christmas wrote:

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This, Picard was more than most a "Federation Citizen." When he spoke of our disastrous first contact with the Klingon, he wouldn't automatically have been referring the Humans.

For the record, I never said that.

[Nerys Myk]

But I did.

[C.E. Evans]

Merry Christmas wrote:

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We know through ST: Enterprise and Kirk's statement that United Earth Space Probe Agency existed, and did so through the mid 23rd century (and maybe beyond that).

The rest of my post actually said that. Various Trek art departments have also sprinkled references to UESPA here and there over the years, but most require screen captures to find them. In VOY's Friendship One, the probe of the same name had a UESPA emblem and registry (UESPA-1) on its hull.