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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Who is John Harrison?
A new character named John Harrison 26 23.64%
A new character with the psuedonym John Harrison 16 14.55%
Khan 19 17.27%
Gary Mitchell 19 17.27%
Harry Mudd 3 2.73%
Nero 0 0%
Trelane 1 0.91%
Other (Please Explain) 26 23.64%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 25 2012, 07:27 AM   #181
cooleddie74
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

Lisbon, Portugal in DS9 was the location of a major Starfleet facility as well as part of Earth's global power grid. London is a much bigger city so perhaps major Starfleet offices and installations are there as well.
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Old December 25 2012, 07:45 AM   #182
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

throwback wrote: View Post
Looking back at JJ Abrams and having read some of the comics, one of my deepest fears may be coming true. A number of his works involve a conspiracy, which the protagonists must identify and confront.

In the comic "The Return of the Archons", it was insinuated that there is a conspiracy involving Starfleet. Admiral Pike is aware of this and is in contact with one of the conspirators. He is told by his contact to keep Captain Kirk in check. In the comic, the captain had uncovered an experiment on Beta III that was initiated by Starfleet. Now, from the Empire Magazine, the readers are informed that "He’s an incredibly brilliant strategist who is aware of various truths that Kirk is not privy to." (http://trekmovie.com/2012/12/24/new-...om-empire-mag/)

Oh, frack!
I've been unlucky in trying to locate the individual issues of the comic, so I've been buying the books that contain two episodes each as I've been finding them, and just bought the one with "Archons" and "The Truth About Tribbles" yesterday. I was wondering whether there might be some connection. Orci (if memory serves) did originally say that Cumberbatch's character was canon, from season 1 of TOS. Landru would fit that description, and he might have a reason for using an alias (aha! Alias was another J.J. Abrams show.. ). And originally, Landru was a hologram, which might explain his apparent superstrength and resilience...

Though "Return of the Archons" was such a mediocre episode that I can't really see Abrams using it as a jumping-off point for a movie. The only thing that makes it stand out, really, is that it was the first episode in which Kirk technobabbled a computer into destroying itself.

I did find the comic's twist on the original episode to be intriguing, though.

SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
I suppose Section 31 still exists in the altered timeline, though we don't know for certain. As to any connection if it does....who knows?
In the "Archons" comic, there's a flashback to Sulu being offered a position in what is clearly implied to be Section 31, so I'd say yes, it exists. And I'm about 65% certain that the conversation Pike has, which throwback referred to above, is with someone high up in Section 31. (Otherwise, why have the Sulu flashback?)
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Old December 25 2012, 04:27 PM   #183
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

Jackson_Roykirk wrote: View Post
There is no reason to believe that Norman was a member of Starfleet, but instead just someone who snuck on the ship wearing a uniform. Norman was impersonating being a member of Starfleet.
Well, I think there would have to be a little more than that, he would at least have faked transfer orders. McCoy even mentioned that there was something not right about him before he took over the ship. I don't think he just put a TOS uniform on and popped in without question.

Edit: Here is an amusing dialogue between Spock and McCoy talking about Norman. It's funny to see that McCoy's instincts and not Spock's logic were correct in this situation.

(Spock and McCoy are greeted by a crewman in blue as he walks along.)
NORMAN: Good morning, sir, Doctor.
SPOCK: Something wrong?
MCCOY: Yes. There's something odd about that man, and I can't quite pinpoint it.
SPOCK: Perhaps you're making a rather hasty judgment. Mister Norman has only been aboard seventy two hours.
MCCOY: I know when something doesn't strike me right, and he doesn't.
SPOCK: Specifics, Doctor. Labels do not make arguments.
MCCOY: All right. There's something wrong about a man who never smiles, whose conversation never varies from the routine of the job, and who won't talk about his background.
SPOCK: I see.
MCCOY: Spock, I mean that it's odd for a non-Vulcan. The ears make all the difference.
SPOCK: I find your argument strewn with gaping defects in logic.
MCCOY: Maybe, but you can't evaluate a man by logic alone. Besides, he has avoided two appointments that I've made for his physical exam without reason.
SPOCK: That's not at all surprising, Doctor. He's probably terrified of your beads and rattles.
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Old December 25 2012, 05:48 PM   #184
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

^^One of the funnier exchanges between Spock and McMcoy.
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Old December 25 2012, 10:23 PM   #185
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

I'm thinking actually (given the shot of the room with the stasis canister things) that at some point someone in Starfleet - or Peter Weller in his ship - found the Botany Bay, lost in space since 1996, and decided to create their *own* supermen - either with the assistance of some defrosts, or autopsies and study - and that Harrison is one of those... Weller's character is presumably the guy in charge - and either literally or conceptually Harrison's "father"
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Old December 25 2012, 10:58 PM   #186
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

It could be Khan's right hand man, after a failed attempt to revive Khan. Possibly the sole survivor of the Botany Bay in a discovery that was botched and then covered over by Starfleet...

It could also be Garth of Izar who years earlier could have still been locked away due to circumstances I'm sure will be explained in a way that makes sense in this alternate timeline.
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Old December 26 2012, 12:12 AM   #187
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

John Harrison is an entirely new character.

And by that I mean that he appears to have the exact same character traits as the crappy villain in the previous movie. Another vengeance-filled cliche running around with a doomsday machine.
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Old December 26 2012, 03:10 PM   #188
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

throwback wrote: View Post
San Francisco. I understand attacking this city. What is important about London in the 23rd century?
Probably roughly the same things that are important about London in the 21st century. It's been described as the world's cultural capital, is the world's most visited city, and is the joint most important of the world's leading economic hubs alongside NYC. Star Trek depicts a very Western-centric view of the future, so I'd say those attributes would make London a pretty tempting target for terrorism, especially if John Harrison's goal is bringing the Earth, and not just Starfleet, to its knees.

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Old December 26 2012, 03:54 PM   #189
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

is there any possibility that John Harrison is an agent of Section 31?
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Old December 26 2012, 04:04 PM   #190
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
I'm thinking actually (given the shot of the room with the stasis canister things) that at some point someone in Starfleet - or Peter Weller in his ship - found the Botany Bay, lost in space since 1996, and decided to create their *own* supermen - either with the assistance of some defrosts, or autopsies and study - and that Harrison is one of those... Weller's character is presumably the guy in charge - and either literally or conceptually Harrison's "father"
I think this could be heading in the right direction. I'm wondering though if the "pods" or "coffins" we saw in the teaser are Khan's enhanced "family" that are essentially being held hostage. If John Harrison doesn't work for Starfleet, then they will disconnect power from the pods and kill his family. Weller finds the BB adrift in space and realizes their potential.
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Old December 26 2012, 07:36 PM   #191
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

After reading 13 pages of this thread, I'm not too surprised to see that no one watched Season 4 of Enterprise. It was cancelled after all...but it is still canon, and it is pre-Nero timeline changes.

Peter Weller is playing John Fredrick Paxton, a disciple of Colonel Green and former leader of Terra Prime. Go ahead, check Memory Alpha. John Harrison...who was an actual TOS crew member as someone else already pointed out...is somehow related to Paxton. I'm not sure how.

JJ Abrams is too good to rehash TWOK or WNMHGB. He is too good to not know that Weller has already played a Trek villain, tied to another unexplored Trek villain. Frankly, Paxton got 2 canon episodes (Demons and Terra Prime) versus Khan's 1 (Space Seed) so there is more material to work with. JJ is also too good to notice that these were the last 2 ST:ENT episodes before that disgusting debacle in the Holodeck which ended what had become a promising show so horribly wrong.

JJ is also very good at providing allusions to every other famous villain for us to salivate about. Releasing scenes like the WNMHGB-esque brig shot or the TWOK "the needs of the many" are just Abrams' own way of running a Corbomite Maneuver on us.

IMHO, of course.

EDIT: BTW, I love the Garth of Izar theory. After all, with the Nero timeline changes the Enterprise wouldn't be near Elba II to stop the jailbreak. Perhaps JJ should follow that one in his third installment.
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Old December 26 2012, 07:43 PM   #192
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

I watched Season 4 of Enterprise and religiously, so thanks for lumping everybody together into one convenient category. It's not John Frederick Paxton. The man was middle aged in the 2150s and would be about 140 or 150 years old in the time of the new movie. The occasional Admiral Archer or Leonard McCoy here and there across almost half a century of Trek does not a regular occurrence make nor should it. Having so many human beings live to extraordinary ages stops being poignant and entertaining after a while and becomes a boring, lazy cliche.

Sure, I suppose Paxton did prison time back on Earth for the Terra Prime attacks seen in ENT and could have always been put in cryogenic suspension at some unspecified later date, but we've seen no evidence that a villain from the prequel series is going to be in the film. Peter Weller is simply playing another role the way James Cromwell did when he came back to the franchise to portray Zefram Cochrane (a lot of people seem to forget that Cromwell actually made three or four other guest appearances in Trek before he was signed to be in FIRST CONTACT in 1996).

It's not Paxton. It's not the same guy.
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Old December 26 2012, 07:46 PM   #193
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

dcbpe wrote: View Post
Peter Weller is playing John Fredrick Paxton, a disciple of Colonel Green and former leader of Terra Prime. Go ahead, check Memory Alpha. John Harrison...who was an actual TOS crew member as someone else already pointed out...is somehow related to Paxton. I'm not sure how.
We've watched s4 of Enterprise.
It's just that nobody believes Weller will play the same character.
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Old December 26 2012, 08:33 PM   #194
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

dcbpe wrote: View Post
After reading 13 pages of this thread, I'm not too surprised to see that no one watched Season 4 of Enterprise. It was cancelled after all...but it is still canon, and it is pre-Nero timeline changes.

Peter Weller is playing John Fredrick Paxton, a disciple of Colonel Green and former leader of Terra Prime. Go ahead, check Memory Alpha.
Or you could do a forum search right here for "Paxton" and find that he was brought up and discussed not a little in the thread about the announcement of Weller's casting, as well as in several other threads between that time and now. Further, you'd find that Paxton also got mentions in threads from well before Weller's involvement was known, including one dated prior to the 2009 movie's release.
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Old December 26 2012, 09:04 PM   #195
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Re: Who is John Harrison (Possible SPOILERS or Insane Babbling)

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
dcbpe wrote: View Post
Peter Weller is playing John Fredrick Paxton, a disciple of Colonel Green and former leader of Terra Prime. Go ahead, check Memory Alpha. John Harrison...who was an actual TOS crew member as someone else already pointed out...is somehow related to Paxton. I'm not sure how.
We've watched s4 of Enterprise.
It's just that nobody believes Weller will play the same character.
Exactly. Unless you also believe that, for example, St John Talbot, Chancellor Gorkon, and Gul Madred were in fact all the same person after some genetic surgery.
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