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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old December 25 2012, 01:14 AM   #16
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

Star Trek tends to assume the audience is a good mix of smart and dumb, and it toes that line better than most other TV shows.
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Old December 25 2012, 02:00 AM   #17
The Wormhole
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Star Trek tends to assume the audience is a good mix of smart and dumb, and it toes that line better than most other TV shows.
Eh, I don't know. Trek's idea of assuming the audience is smart is by having characters spew out confusing technical jargon in key scenes.
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Old December 25 2012, 04:35 AM   #18
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

He was off planet, he doesn't arrive till Tuesday.
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Old December 25 2012, 04:40 AM   #19
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

TheRoyalFamily wrote: View Post
Or it could be that, while every other planet maintains some form of independence, Earth is actually wholly UFP territory, and thus the UFP prez is directly in charge of Earth!
Not only is that not true, it would be inconceivable. It would mean that Earth citizens had no rights and no representation.

Just ask anyone living in Washington, DC why that would be a problem.

As for the eps in question: There were supposed to be scenes where Jaresh-Inyo "federalizes" United Earth personnel but it got cut for time.
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Old December 25 2012, 05:51 AM   #20
Guy Gardener
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

What if the Federation bought (or leased?) Earth off man kind?

All those human colonies out there!

"To have Earth to use as our base, we will give the humanity 100 Class M Planets to colonize and do with as they will."
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Old December 25 2012, 05:55 AM   #21
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

We know United Earth exists, because we saw it on ENT.

And of course United Earth would not cease to exist just because the Federation was later formed.
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Old December 25 2012, 06:08 AM   #22
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

United Earth pops up few times in TOS as well.
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Old December 25 2012, 09:40 AM   #23
Guy Gardener
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

United.Earth.Space.Probe.Agency.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2193/uespa.jpg

It's written on their shoulder patches during almost every episode.

There was that naked episode right?
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Old December 25 2012, 04:03 PM   #24
Yuckleberry Finn
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

Star Grinch wrote: View Post
I always thought it was dumb for them to assume the audience is dumb.
I've seen a lot of people get confused with plots of sci-fi show episodes, even when they seem obvious to those who follow the show religously. I knew someone who didn't realize time travel was involved in TNG's All Good Things. He spent the whole time watching All Good Things.. thinking "WTF?".

And this guy was quite a bright guy who would go on to become a school administrator.


In other words, thinking it would be confuse viewers doesn't mean the producers think they are dumb....
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Old December 25 2012, 05:22 PM   #25
indolover
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

We also don't understand how the planets' governments relate to the UFP "federal" government.

Maybe as it was an external foreign affairs issue, the "federal" government has charge.
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Old December 25 2012, 05:51 PM   #26
Ensign_Redshirt
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

Dunno, where's the First Minister of England?

Maybe we should try to compare the Federation's political structure with that of contemporary UK. While Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland have their own regional governments, England remains under the direct jurisdiction of the UK government (which means it effectively doubles as national government as well as "regional" government for England).
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Old December 25 2012, 06:32 PM   #27
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

^ But like I said, we already know that's not the case here. United Earth exists; we have seen it. And of course it will - it must - continue to exist even with the founding of the Federation.
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Old December 25 2012, 07:06 PM   #28
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

First just because it once existed doesn't mean it still does. I mean how many years has it been since we heard of a ruling Earth Body? Early first season TOS, and most of that was in reference to a Space Agency and such, not necessarily a governing body.

And of course most of those references were due just because the writers of TOS had yet to come up with Starfleet, and the Untied Federation of Planets. I think its only pre Federation Enterprise that consistently uses an Earth based governing body.

For example we see no Earth government during the Probe's attack on Earth in Star Trek IV. All the decisions we see made are by the Fed President and the head of Starfleet. Nor do I believe we see any representative of an earth based government in the Motionless Picture. I believe those are the only TOS era events to threaten Earth, that we see before TNG.
Based on what we do know I think its safe to say that the Federation and Starfleet seem to be the ones in charge when at the very least it comes to outside threats.

There is probably a local governing body that handles internal earth issues, and even military forces or security forces for internal earth issues, or to supplement Starfleet. But I don't think after ENT we have any evidence of a local Earth Government that has say on External Security issues that face earth.
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Old December 25 2012, 07:10 PM   #29
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ But like I said, we already know that's not the case here. United Earth exists; we have seen it. And of course it will - it must - continue to exist even with the founding of the Federation.
To some degree, but we really have no idea how much authority or power they actually have. it could be extremely limited. And technically by DS9 time, it doesn't have to exist in any form (i think it does, but it doesn't have to).
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Old December 25 2012, 07:15 PM   #30
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

mswood wrote: View Post
First just because it once existed doesn't mean it still does.
Ever hear of Occam's Razor?

Like I keep saying: It literally does not make any sense for there to be no Earth government. If there was not one, then Earth citizens would have no representation in the Federation - therefore, they would have no rights. That sound right to you?

And there is nothing so magical about the Federation that would cause member worlds' governments to vanish when they join. There's no reason they would do that. It's inconceivable that the Federation would make such a demand. No world would ever want to join if it meant they would lose their own local government! Then the Federation really would be no better than the Borg.

But I don't think after ENT we have any evidence of a local Earth Government that has say on External Security issues that face earth.
We don't have any evidence of a lack of one, either.

And, non-canon though it may be, the novels have fully developed the structure of United Earth government, and they are of course the only way we are ever going to see any more stories taking place in the prime (non-Abrams) timeline, so their word is as good as canon.
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