RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,418
Posts: 5,506,467
Members: 25,130
Currently online: 419
Newest member: 2278

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 24 2012, 07:42 PM   #1
Mr Silver
Rear Admiral
 
Location: UK
Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

...Something new ends up bugging me!

To be fair, this time, it wasn't something that I had really noticed before. One of the TV channels was showing TWOK (the regular version, not the DE unfortunately!) the other night, and as per usual, I ended up watching it (I'm quite confident I can recite every line in the movie).

It wasn't until the end of the movie that my "that's not right!" senses kicked in. Observe:



This is Spock's casket at the end of the movie, untarnished and perfectly intact on the surface of the Genesis planet. This works in favour of David's theory in TSFS that the tube soft landed when the gravitational fields were in flux. But! Then:



In TSFS, we see the casket, showing the effects of the elements OR burn damage from it being shot from Enterprise and/or entering the atmosphere of Genesis. As you can also see from this photo, David is about to open the casket, which comes across as being as simple as lifting the lid open. This raises the question as to how Spock's body managed to remain inside the casket during the transit. I mean, perhaps it didn't, he was found a distance away from the casket after all, but surely the Enterprise crew would have ensured that the casket was sealed shut? After all, it wasn't exactly a foregone conclusion that Spock would be resurrected and need to escape the coffin. You also have to consider his condition, specifically the fact that he'd still be emitting dangerous levels of ionised radiation for several hours at least, following his death. This would make the task of airtight sealing the casket, one of the utmost importance.

Thoughts?
Mr Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2012, 07:54 PM   #2
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

Honestly? It looks like a car drove by it and splashed mud everywhere. Maybe it rained.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2012, 08:05 PM   #3
Mr Silver
Rear Admiral
 
Location: UK
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Honestly? It looks like a car drove by it and splashed mud everywhere. Maybe it rained.


"Lost" style TSFS conspiracy theories!

John Locke: "We're not the first people on this planet, and we all know it!!"

When I was getting the pictures for the thread, I had this strange scenario play out in my head, in which a team of explorers beamed down to Genesis, and used a laser torch to open Spock's casket. Perhaps they reasoned that his cells would breakdown and regenerate, and that he would need to breathe?
Mr Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2012, 08:10 PM   #4
RandyS
Vice Admiral
 
RandyS's Avatar
 
Location: Randyland
View RandyS's Twitter Profile
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

The only thought I can offer is that continuity was not as important to people then as it is now.
RandyS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2012, 08:14 PM   #5
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

As for the casket being open, I figured once Spock got big enough, he probably just busted out of the thing. His robes were still inside, remember. He used his angry Vulcan toddler strength to escape to freedom.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2012, 08:15 PM   #6
Relayer1
Rear Admiral
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

Its just weathered - its still intact, just covered in crud. Rain, mud, ash etc.

And who's to say there's not some sort of catch under the edge of the lid ?
__________________
Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...
Relayer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2012, 08:23 PM   #7
Mr Silver
Rear Admiral
 
Location: UK
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
And who's to say there's not some sort of catch under the edge of the lid ?
It's possible, but then how did Spock get out? It's not like there would be a catch inside, just in case somebody got locked in, it is a weapon after all.

It's probably safe to say that the inside was designed to be airtight, to ensure that none of the inner elements and chemicals would react before they were supposed to.

The way I see it, they removed all the inner parts of the tube and put Spock's body into it (whether this was within the reactor room due to radiation contaminant risks, or whether it was in sickbay is anybody's guess) and then sealed it shut, with the intention that it wasn't going to be opened with anything less than a cutting beam.
Mr Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2012, 08:38 PM   #8
Merry Christmas
Vice Admiral
 
Merry Christmas's Avatar
 
Location: tantalizing t'girl's techno temenos
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

Something vaguely like those glow in the dark trunk lid releases, like they put in American cars. To prevent people from being trapped.

Baby Spock moved, there was pressure outside, the lid released, he crawled out.

*****

Where did the rest of Spock's body get too? He changed from a 85 kg adult corpse, into a sub 5 kg baby. Where did the rest of him go? There should have been organic "goo" in the torpedo casing.

In one of the Incredible Hulk movies, when the Hulk change back to Banner, there was a growing puddle of fluids around his feet.

Merry Christmas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2012, 09:16 PM   #9
Mr Silver
Rear Admiral
 
Location: UK
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

I've gone over this a few times, trying to piece together Spock's resurrection:

Stage 1: Spock's corpse comes into contact with the lingering Genesis effect (which doesn't explain why the casket still remains) and undergoes cellular disintegration - that's if Spock hadn't already been melted down into cellular residue via atmospheric entry.

Stage 2: The cells regenerate and undergo rapid development, presumably skipping the fetal stage (since there was nothing to serve as a womb on the Genesis planet) and forming an infant Spock.

Stage 3: Spock begins rapidly ageing, until his cells reach roughly the same age as they were when his original body died.
Mr Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2012, 09:30 PM   #10
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

Mr Silver wrote: View Post

Stage 2: The cells regenerate and undergo rapid development, presumably skipping the fetal stage (since there was nothing to serve as a womb on the Genesis planet) and forming an infant Spock.
Maybe the torpedo tube WAS the womb!

Dun-dun-duuuuuuun.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2012, 09:31 PM   #11
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post

Where did the rest of Spock's body get too? He changed from a 85 kg adult corpse, into a sub 5 kg baby. Where did the rest of him go? There should have been organic "goo" in the torpedo casing.
Likely food for the evolving microbes that were there when it was shot from the Enterprise.
__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2012, 03:59 AM   #12
Timewalker
Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady
 
Timewalker's Avatar
 
Location: In many different universes, simultaneously.
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

This raises the question as to how Spock's body managed to remain inside the casket during the transit.
Starfleet finally got around to installing seat belts.
__________________
"Let's give it to Riker. He'll eat anything!"

For some great Original Series fanfic, check out the Valjiir Continuum!
Timewalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2012, 04:21 AM   #13
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

It looks like the Genesis planet had, you know, weather.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2012, 03:42 PM   #14
shivkala
Rear Admiral
 
shivkala's Avatar
 
Location: Patrolling Sector 2814
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

If there is an emergency release latch inside, I'm interested in finding out the reasons why they are there. Starfleet Academy hazing, maybe? Pranks on the junior officers? These things were not designed to have human bodies in them. Unless it's SOP to put bodies into them to "bury them at space." Which, in Spock's case, makes some sense due to the radiation (as I'm sure the photon torpedo casing would have to protect against the radiation from inside the torpedo).
__________________
"When I reach for the edge of the universe, I do it knowing that along some paths of cosmic discovery, there are times when, at least for now, one must be content to love the questions themselves." --Neil deGrasse Tyson
shivkala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2012, 04:17 PM   #15
Mr Silver
Rear Admiral
 
Location: UK
Re: Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

^ The radiation hazard plays a big part. Sure, they could vent the reactor room (a process that would take several hours presumably, hence the need for Spock's sacrifice in the first place) so the engineers could enter (in their suits) safely and remove Spock's body. But then, Spock's body would still be emitting dangerous levels of radiation, necessitating additional precaution.

The way I see it, McCoy and/or and his staff entered the chamber in rad suits to prepare Spock's body and dress him in his burial robe. The engineers then entered the chamber with the casket (which would be radiation proof by nature) which Spock's body was placed inside, and then the casket was sealed shut. They then took the casket to the torpedo bay, confident that Spock's radioactive corpse would pose no danger in a radiation proof, airtight sealed casket.

Sure, they could have simply beamed him out, straight into the casket. But then you have to take into account the frequent complications with transporters and radiation, along with the fact that Spock was dressed in his robe. Again, they could have beamed him into the robe, then into the casket, by now it's become a comedy sketch! Starfleet would have procedures that emphasise respect for the deceased, when dealing with the preparation and burial of the deceased.

I am trying to keep this serious!
Mr Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:12 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.