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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old December 23 2012, 04:34 AM   #856
plynch
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Well, sure, there are going to be works that are more suited to a given format than others. But individual examples aren't universal rules. You're perfectly entitled to want your work to be presented in a certain format if that format is important to the artistic integrity of that particular work; but that has exactly nothing to do with the relative merits of digital vs. hardcopy in general terms.
I really don't think I was trying to make a general comment on the relative merits of digital v. hardcopy. Just throwing another example into the mix.

Remember, I said I think I'd actually prefer download of the Trek music. I don't generally buy cds at all, thanks to Grooveshark. But I do buy old vinyl for the historicity, aesthetics, and (frankly) conditioning from my youth associating pleasure with vinyl records. But if I want pristine sound, I am skipping the plastic and going direct to data stream.
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Old December 23 2012, 05:37 AM   #857
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

gottacook wrote: View Post
With respect to the emotionality of the music: It would be interesting to learn how people who'd never seen the original TV series might react to some of these cues heard in isolation.
Hmm. Any cues in particular?

(My TOS familiarity comes mostly from the Blish novelizations; I've seen all of season 1 at least once, as well as I believe with season 2, but it's been a while and I certainly don't have strong memories of most of the cues. So while not a "pure" TOS virgin, I might be close enough for government work. )
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Old December 23 2012, 05:53 AM   #858
gottacook
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

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Composers don't score to the script, they score to the rough cut of the film. ...
Yes, I know all that and didn't mean to suggest otherwise. But I cannot believe that Duning came up with the Empath score in only a matter of weeks (while working on Is There for the same deadline, the early-September scoring session). Filming of The Empath didn't conclude until early August; somewhere I have the exact date (the call sheet in the USC archive for the last day of filming specified CLOSED SET for the 4th act; that, I remember).

The main theme - and especially its long extension in the 4th act - has a rhythmic suppleness that is most unusual and likely involved a lot of trial and error, trying different combinations of note values to achieve the desired flow of melody and the corresponding harmonic rhythm. That is, the main theme has no "pulse" or definite upbeat/downbeat pattern; the meter seems always to be changing.

Yet the music that develops from this is coherent anyway because of frequent use of the first notes of the original statement of the Gem theme, with the second note a minor third up from the first note (just like the first two notes of the main themes of Metamorphosis, Return to Tomorrow, and Is There) and, like those other scores, continuing with many additional skips up and down by a third, as is characteristic of Duning's melodies; indeed, the first five notes of the Return theme are nothing but upward motion by alternating minor and major thirds - for example, A-C-E-G-B or D-F-A-C-E. (The first six notes of Gem's theme are those same five notes from Return plus an added note to give stepwise motion - e.g., A-C-E-F-G-B.)

The rhythmic suppleness necessary for the poignancy that The Empath demanded couldn't have been quick and easy to achieve, unless Duning had written something independently months or years earlier that turned out to be appropriate or at least adaptable.* Hence, I think Duning had early knowledge of the script. If he wasn't provided with such early knowledge, he should have been in this special case, because of the several long dialogue-free passages that any version of the script would have had to include.

*Such things do happen. When the magazine I work for began its weekly podcast, 6 or 7 years ago, I was asked to supply some music (being the only staff member with a musical academic background), and it turned out that something I'd improvised and recorded as a teenager in the 1970s - as part of "program music" describing an invitational youth-group basketball tournament I'd attended, of all things - was ideally suited to be the basis of the main podcast theme.
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Old December 23 2012, 03:16 PM   #859
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Oh, sure, I recycle old ideas all the time in my writing, and I know other writers do too. It stands to reason that composers, like writers, have plenty of leftover bits that they keep in a drawer for when the right occasion to use them comes along.

Interesting analysis of Duning's style. I know that different composers have their own characteristic voices and signatures, but I've never really broken it down in that much detail. (Except for simple things like David Bell's scores for the later Trek shows almost always being in waltz time.)
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Old December 23 2012, 04:42 PM   #860
TV's Frank
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

It could also be that Duning was just incredibly talented and able to work under this kind of pressure. Someone might scoff at the notion that Jerry Goldsmith composed the score for "Chinatown" in 10 days, but he did it, it's a fact. The thing is, he was more insanely talented musically than any of us here, plus this was a career he had been doing for decades. Duning was already proficient at film and TV scoring, so he was accustomed to working fast and again, was exponentially more talented musically than any of us talking about this set.
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Old December 23 2012, 05:05 PM   #861
SchwEnt
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Is there music missing?

I'm listening to "Mudd's Women" and there's one track I can't find. I've listened to all the Mudd tracks on disc three.

On the DVD it's at the 7:13 minute mark, right after McCoy's "Amen to that, Scotty." The women walk out of the transporter room and there's some type of "hotsy-totsy" music as we see their asses down the corridor. It's used in other eps, I recall hearing it used for the gangster's moll in "Piece of the Action", among others.

I can't find it in the "Mudd's Women" tracks. I can't find it in any library tracks in any of the three seasons in this set.

Does anyone know which music I'm referring to? Has anyone found it anywhere in this collection?
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Old December 23 2012, 05:48 PM   #862
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Sounds like Venus walks? I recall the cue you are talking about, and I remember it was reused in A Piece of the Action.

I hope it isn't missing from the set.
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Old December 23 2012, 05:50 PM   #863
Christopher
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
I'm listening to "Mudd's Women" and there's one track I can't find. I've listened to all the Mudd tracks on disc three.

On the DVD it's at the 7:13 minute mark, right after McCoy's "Amen to that, Scotty." The women walk out of the transporter room and there's some type of "hotsy-totsy" music as we see their asses down the corridor. It's used in other eps, I recall hearing it used for the gangster's moll in "Piece of the Action", among others.

I can't find it in the "Mudd's Women" tracks. I can't find it in any library tracks in any of the three seasons in this set.
It's from the music Courage wrote for the "Mudd's Women" preview trailer that was aired at the end of "The Naked Time" in the original run. It's therefore included as part of the "Naked Time" program, as Track 30 on Disc 2. (And since it wasn't re-recorded for season 2, that means its use in "A Piece of the Action" is another example of the show bending the rules about reusing music from previous seasons.)
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Old December 23 2012, 05:54 PM   #864
SchwEnt
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Ah, I wouldn't think to look for that track in "The Naked Time" score. You guys have got these hundreds of tracks memorized already, don't you? Hot dog, thanks a million.
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Old December 23 2012, 05:58 PM   #865
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
Ah, I wouldn't think to look for that track in "The Naked Time" score. You guys have got these hundreds of tracks memorized already, don't you?
No, but it's a question that comes up a lot.

BTW, to repeat: There is NOTHING missing from this set. Seriously. If you can't find it, it's just because it's not where you think it was or it was created in an edit.
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Old December 23 2012, 05:59 PM   #866
Kamdan
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

It would have been nice if they had included the Vulcan harp instrumental music to Charlie Is My Darling, which was used in The Way to Eden. I don't see it listed on the tracks.
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Old December 23 2012, 06:07 PM   #867
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Christopher wrote: View Post
(And since it wasn't re-recorded for season 2, that means its use in "A Piece of the Action" is another example of the show bending the rules about reusing music from previous seasons.)
I seem to recall music from "Mudd's Women" being reused in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" -- were these library rerecordings or actually from the "Mudd's Women" score?
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Old December 23 2012, 06:23 PM   #868
Kamdan
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Speaking of Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, where did the music come from when they're running through the ship with the burning buildings superimposed?
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Old December 23 2012, 06:42 PM   #869
Christopher
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
Ah, I wouldn't think to look for that track in "The Naked Time" score. You guys have got these hundreds of tracks memorized already, don't you? Hot dog, thanks a million.
Well, that particular one was included on the previous GNP Crescendo release of "The Naked Time" (with "Shore Leave"), so it was one I already knew about before this set even came out. (I even mentioned it earlier in the thread, when I was replying to the track-listing releases by mentioning what hadn't been released before and what was presented differently on the earlier releases. On the GNP version, the trailer music was included before the rest of the "Naked Time" score rather than at the end.)


Kamdan wrote: View Post
It would have been nice if they had included the Vulcan harp instrumental music to Charlie Is My Darling, which was used in The Way to Eden. I don't see it listed on the tracks.
It's at the beginning of the "Charlie Is My Darling" track, as I recall.


Kamdan wrote: View Post
Speaking of Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, where did the music come from when they're running through the ship with the burning buildings superimposed?
If I recall correctly, that music was from "Where No Man Has Gone Before," though I don't know the cue title.
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Old December 23 2012, 06:49 PM   #870
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

I thought the music in Let That Be in the corridor was by Fred Steiner? It didn't sound like Courage to my ear... maybe from another 3d season ep by Fred like Spock's Brain or Elaan of Troyius?
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