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Old December 21 2012, 03:37 PM   #31
J.T.B.
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

section9 wrote: View Post
Go back to Gene Roddenberry's personal service history and you'll see why he designed "Starfleet" the way he did.

Roddenberry was a bomber pilot with the 13th Air Force in the South Pacific during the War. The largest presence in everyone's life was the Pacific Fleet. There were thousands of ships in the big Blue Fleet (all were painted Haze Grey, btw), and the comings and goings of the gray supply ships were a constant presence in Roddenberry's life (he won the DFC, btw).

Starfleet is based on, if nothing else, the Pacific Fleet of World War II, a vast armada that as much as any instrument of war, played the most prominent role in the strangulation and reduction of the Japanese Empire. Roddenberry had a more pacific and scientific role in mind for Starfleet, but in the confident era of pre-Vietnam America that gave birth to Star Trek, Star Fleet was an armada that was fit to fight, and ready to fight.
Probably an influence, but the massive 3rd/5th Fleet concentrations of naval power don't really resemble the Starfleet we've seen. It seems more like a 19th century navy, with stations and squadrons spread all over the place, looking after national interests, backing up diplomacy, policing the colones. Especially the Royal Navy, also massive and militarily dominant, but where the "dramatic action" would be be found more in patrolling a far-flung empire than steaming back and forth in battle line exercises over and over again.

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Old December 21 2012, 05:33 PM   #32
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Read the Making of Star Trek. Starfleet was based on the Hornblower novels, and the situation (out of contact with home base, etc) was modeled on the 18th century Royal Navy. However, to make it more accessible to audiences, he used the then-current US Navy structure, ranks, etc., rather than using the tradition Nelson matured and died under, so we didn't get to see Kirk's First Lieutenant Spock, or Midshipman Chekov. It also avoided having audiences puzzle out Kirk bellowing "wear ship!"
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Old December 21 2012, 06:42 PM   #33
J.T.B.
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Darkwing wrote: View Post
Read the Making of Star Trek. Starfleet was based on the Hornblower novels, and the situation (out of contact with home base, etc) was modeled on the 18th century Royal Navy. However, to make it more accessible to audiences, he used the then-current US Navy structure, ranks, etc., rather than using the tradition Nelson matured and died under, so we didn't get to see Kirk's First Lieutenant Spock, or Midshipman Chekov. It also avoided having audiences puzzle out Kirk bellowing "wear ship!"
I've read it. It says that the captain is based on Hornblower, whose career as a captain, of course, was in the 19th century. If we are looking for a real-world parallel, the 1800s RN, with a larger British Empire, a more extensive network of bases, coaling stations etc. and lack of a looming battle fleet threat, seems a better fit the the 18th century RN.

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Old December 24 2012, 03:06 AM   #34
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
and lack of a looming battle fleet threat, seems a better fit the the 18th century RN.
Well mostly because said looming battle fleet threat was afraid some energy ball people would f@#k them up royally if they started something
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Old December 25 2012, 08:48 AM   #35
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

As the old saying goes is, 'if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck....its a duck'

Starfleet is the UFP's Military.

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Old December 28 2012, 06:06 AM   #36
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

I have a question, who said that Starfleet is not a military organization in the series? Picard? I don't think Sisko did, but I remember that Picard mentioned it several time in TNG, or if not he mentioned it in an old Star Trek Game called Final Unity. He said to the Alien that the Enterprise was not a warship and it's weapon is means only for self defense. Well, I don't know, but I think Picard is a liar, or else, he won't went around the galaxy with the Enterprise D, a ship full of powerful weapons, the best belong to Starlfeet. Why not going around with an Oberth Class if it means only for scientific and exploration mission?

Or Starlfeet is the sole UFP organization that handle out world matter. Inside, there are scientific and exploration organization like NASA, Diplomatic corp, Military Force, etc.

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Old December 28 2012, 07:06 AM   #37
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Well in pre federation days Captain Archer made a big deal about having to add "the military" in the form of the MACOs to the Enterprise's mission. Going with the Hornblower theme the US established a Naval Academy and a Military Academy
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Old December 28 2012, 03:23 PM   #38
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Well in pre federation days Captain Archer made a big deal about having to add "the military" in the form of the MACOs to the Enterprise's mission. Going with the Hornblower theme the US established a Naval Academy and a Military Academy
He sounded like a Navy captain of today grumbling about having a bunch of army commandos on his ship to me.
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Old December 31 2012, 06:16 AM   #39
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Oh the old debate. Let me get my thoughts together.

Let's see.

Starfleet is a military organisation.

Wow. That was simple.

Anyway, someone mentioned the MACOs being on Enterprise as being the military. I think the United Earth Starfleet was never meant to be a combat unit. Hence why Enterprise didn't have a policy of elevated alert status in battle, which came later with the introduction of "Tactical Alert". Instead they were given the means to defend themselves. When the unthinkable happened and Earth entered into an interstellar conflict, the UE Starfleet had no choice but to adopt the mission of Earths defensive space force, and brought along the separate special forces of Earths unified army (although I still believe that the MACO were not a large fighting force. We know that the Earth nations still had militaries, so the MACOs were an elite fighting unit granted to the United Earth government. A small force it always had access too.)

Starfleet is an adaptable organisation. And it seems like it builds up to a full combat force when needed. Star Trek VI is a prime example of this. Starfleet built up into a large military force to counter the Klingons. This large force was scaled down after the movie, evolving into the more exploratory Starfleet of Picard's era. It of course built up for the war with the Dominion. Even adopting more military style I uniforms.

Starfleet is what is needed for the Federation. Eliminate the bureaucracy by having one group do it all.
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Old January 4 2013, 08:45 PM   #40
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
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Except that the Coast Guard doesn't fight full scale wars like the Dominion War for example.
But then they do fight in full scale wars like the First and Second World Wars. Now the Navy might not assign a cutter to the line of battleships about to face the Yamato but they did perform missions from convoy escort to being part of the Marine and Army landing fleets.
there was also a USCG presence in the Viet Nam conflict. Also, the USCG has been involved the wars in the middle east the past decade, providing port security at overseas bases, among other functions.
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Old January 5 2013, 04:26 AM   #41
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

True. Most of the Mekong brown-water riverine boats were piloted by Coast Guard coxs'n's.

And during Gulf War I (Desert Storm), Coasties were training squids how to inspect a ship for contraband (to enforce the blockades).
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Old January 5 2013, 09:39 PM   #42
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Did you mean squads or squids? I hope squids, I quite like the idea that we are using squids for security.
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Old January 5 2013, 09:53 PM   #43
Star Wolf
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Squid is US Military slang for a sailor.
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Old January 5 2013, 10:09 PM   #44
Darkwing
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Squid is US Military slang for a sailor.
Squids - Sailors
Zoomies - Air Force
Jarheads - Marines
Puddle Pirates - Coast Guard
GIs - Soldiers
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Old January 6 2013, 09:12 AM   #45
nightwind1
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Darkwing wrote: View Post
Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Squid is US Military slang for a sailor.
Squids - Sailors
Zoomies - Air Force
Jarheads - Marines
Puddle Pirates - Coast Guard
GIs - Soldiers
Nah, Soldiers are Grunts or Ground Pounders.
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