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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old December 15 2012, 06:11 PM   #16
R. Star
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

Anwar wrote: View Post
Can the Dominion beam through shields?
They did it all the time on DS9 with their super long range transporter things.
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Old December 15 2012, 06:28 PM   #17
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

Anwar wrote: View Post
Can the Dominion beam through shields?
Beam? Heck, they can walk through them.
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Old December 19 2012, 11:13 AM   #18
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

Hmm --- I had always assumed the Borg encountered Dominion ships here and there probably assimilated them, but never gave much thought to the actual battles.

Here's some random musings on the topic:

The big reason the Federation had problems with the Dominion wasn't so much because they were technologically superior, its because they had technology that worked differently and it's differences weren't something the Federation had had to deal with up until that point.

In the Alpha and Beta Quadrant most species ended up bartering their technology to some degree so most technology evolved along similar paths. The Dominion's technology was generally able to over load the Federation and other Alpha/Beta quadrant species because of the incompatibilities. Once the Federation learned how to adapt, it was certainly a much more level playing field.

That being said, one would have to believe the Borg would be able to adapt much more easily (since that's what they do!). I'd honestly anticipate that if the Borg sent 1 cube at a time at the Dominion, they'd be able to repel it like the Federation is able to. Likewise, if they sent four or five at them at the same time, it might get more then a little hard to handle.

On the personal combat end of things --- I think that becomes a far more interesting question. We've heard references to "Tactical Drones" and "X species make really good Tactical drones", but I think it can be argued we've never actually seen tactical drones and what they're capable of. Do they exclusively use energy based weapons or has the Borg invested in making physically strong drones capable of hand to hand combat? I think its really hard to rule out that they don't have something like this. I mean every "hive" has its "warrior class" or "defender class". Overall, I'd be inclined to believe we don't really have enough information in canon-esque areas to know one way or the other how the Gem'hedar would equit themselves in a true physical brawl with the borg.
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Old December 19 2012, 05:45 PM   #19
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

I think Tactical Drones would be similar to the Renegade Borg from "Descent" who had weapons and were very fast and strong. They didn't have adaptive shields though.
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Old December 19 2012, 11:43 PM   #20
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

I'd say the concept of Borg evolved a ton since anything in TNG (minus First Contact).

I don't really envision anything like Predator, but I'd expect if someone with some Trek authority would design a "tactical drone" today (or even during the Voyager era) --- it would have been something more fitting of of a "borg warrior class".
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Old December 20 2012, 12:02 AM   #21
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

Well, there's also the water down effect to consider. The Borg and Dominion are both guilty of this. Throughout the run, the bad guys, who are unstoppable when we first encounter them, get watered down considerably to the point where the good guys can beat them.

When we first encountered the Borg, they laughed at everything the Enterprise-D threw at it, destroyed an entire FLEET and nearly assimilated Earth with a single Cube. By the end of Voyager, Cubes were largely ineffective against Voyager, even the ramped up tactical cubes had to shut down for repairs against a ship half the size of the E-D to say nothing of them turning on Godmode in Endgame and blowing up Cubes wholesale.

When we first encountered the Dominion their technology was unstoppable, their warriors were the best, and they took out a Galaxy class starship with little effort. By the end of Season 7 of DS9 runabouts could take out Jem'Hadar attack ships.

So as for the hypothetical Borg vs Dominion? Really depends on when we're talking about. I'd say early DS9 the Borg would win. By the end of Voyager the Dominion would by sole virtue of the Borg having been watered down more than they were.
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Old December 20 2012, 12:50 AM   #22
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

Tosk wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Can the Dominion beam through shields?
Beam? Heck, they can walk through them.
Yes! That too!
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Old December 20 2012, 01:19 AM   #23
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

Marie1 wrote: View Post
Tosk wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Can the Dominion beam through shields?
Beam? Heck, they can walk through them.
Yes! That too!
It's like they forgot the Dominion had those long range transporters and force field abilities around season 5 or something. To say nothing of Eris being telepathic.
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Old December 20 2012, 01:41 AM   #24
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

Star Grinch wrote: View Post
Marie1 wrote: View Post
Tosk wrote: View Post
Beam? Heck, they can walk through them.
Yes! That too!
It's like they forgot the Dominion had those long range transporters and force field abilities around season 5 or something. To say nothing of Eris being telepathic.
My thought is that Starfleet learned a way to improve their tech to combat the Dominion.

It was the same reason a fleet of ships assembled to fight the Borg cube in First Contact was able to do heavily damage to it, while another fleet was completely ineffective against another cube in BOBW.
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Old December 20 2012, 02:16 AM   #25
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

Doesn't the question ask how a Borg Drone and Jem'Hadar fighter would do in hand- to-hand combat? I'm not sure how the comparison of the two fleets came into play.

Anyway, I think the Jem'Hadar is in trouble, if weapons are not allowed. Remember, in Best of Both Worlds, Worf was thrown to the ground quite easily by a drone. The Borg Drone is certainly stronger, and though it's slower, it should win. It's also more durable than the Jem'Hadar.

Locutus was bringing Worf to his knees before Data made the save, also. Borg Drones are very powerful.
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Old December 20 2012, 02:36 AM   #26
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Doesn't the question ask how a Borg Drone and Jem'Hadar fighter would do in hand- to-hand combat? I'm not sure how the comparison of the two fleets came into play.

Anyway, I think the Jem'Hadar is in trouble, if weapons are not allowed. Remember, in Best of Both Worlds, Worf was thrown to the ground quite easily by a drone. The Borg Drone is certainly stronger, and though it's slower, it should win. It's also more durable than the Jem'Hadar.

Locutus was bringing Worf to his knees before Data made the save, also. Borg Drones are very powerful.
It depends if we're dealing with the watered down Borg or not. A single drone owned Worf in BoBW but in First Contact he was mowing them down by the dozen. Plus the Jem'Hadar all carry those long straight bat'leth knockoffs for hand to hand combat, so adapting isn't an issue.
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Old December 21 2012, 04:51 AM   #27
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Doesn't the question ask how a Borg Drone and Jem'Hadar fighter would do in hand- to-hand combat? I'm not sure how the comparison of the two fleets came into play.

Anyway, I think the Jem'Hadar is in trouble, if weapons are not allowed. Remember, in Best of Both Worlds, Worf was thrown to the ground quite easily by a drone. The Borg Drone is certainly stronger, and though it's slower, it should win. It's also more durable than the Jem'Hadar.

Locutus was bringing Worf to his knees before Data made the save, also. Borg Drones are very powerful.

Wouldn't the Drones be in more trouble without weapons? After all other races can hold their own - Worf could etc. lmagine 1000s of Worfs that could be trained and replaced in 14 days...
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Old December 21 2012, 07:19 AM   #28
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

Star Grinch wrote: View Post
Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Doesn't the question ask how a Borg Drone and Jem'Hadar fighter would do in hand- to-hand combat? I'm not sure how the comparison of the two fleets came into play.

Anyway, I think the Jem'Hadar is in trouble, if weapons are not allowed. Remember, in Best of Both Worlds, Worf was thrown to the ground quite easily by a drone. The Borg Drone is certainly stronger, and though it's slower, it should win. It's also more durable than the Jem'Hadar.

Locutus was bringing Worf to his knees before Data made the save, also. Borg Drones are very powerful.
It depends if we're dealing with the watered down Borg or not. A single drone owned Worf in BoBW but in First Contact he was mowing them down by the dozen. Plus the Jem'Hadar all carry those long straight bat'leth knockoffs for hand to hand combat, so adapting isn't an issue.
Wouldn't the Drones be in more trouble without weapons? After all other races can hold their own - Worf could etc. lmagine 1000s of Worfs that could be trained and replaced in 14 days...[/QUOTE]

That's why I mentioned without weapons. Worf was killing Borgs with his Bat'leth, not without it.

Without weapons, Worf had no chance against a Borg Drone. I don't recall him having success without a weapon.
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Old December 21 2012, 04:28 PM   #29
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

^ Which is why the Jem'Hadar would presumably do quite well against the Borg in a ground combat scenario. They all carry those bat'leth ripoffs too. Amazing the Borg can adapt to weapons fire, walk through forcefields, function in a vacuum but blunt force trauma gets them every time.
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Old December 21 2012, 05:02 PM   #30
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Re: This Borg vs Dominion Thingy

Not always, the Renegade Borg in "Descent" were very fast and strong. They'd be able to dodge and block physical weapons.
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