Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

[Trekker4747]

Jeyl wrote:

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Also remember that this is a writer who wrote a planet's temperature being -291 degrees celsius (That's below absolute zero) and assumed that we would never be able to solve Fermat's last theorem.

The Absolute-0 error was just a pure, sloppy, error someone should have probably caught. Forgetting that the temperature is below Absolute-0, that's a temperature that pretty much doesn't (and probably can't) exist in nature as even in the coldest, deepest, recesses of space there's energy and where there's energy there's heat and where there's heat there's a temperature above Absolute-0. We could probably fan-wank it that with the "discovery" of meta particles and science Absolute-0 was recalibrated. What we now know as Absolute-0 may be where all atomic motion stops but maybe things like antimatter, subspace particles and such still work meaning there's lower possible temperatures where THESE things stop.

On Fermat's Last Theorm, as of 1988/89 when the episode was made we hadn't yet solved it, at that point being a 300+ year old problem. It probably didn't seem likely it'd be solved in ANOTHER 300 years either. (I also believe some lip service in DS9 retconned/explained where Picard was coming from on it being an unsolved problem.)

[Jeyl]

Trekker4747 wrote:

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On Fermat's Last Theorm, as of 1988/89 when the episode was made we hadn't yet solved it, at that point being a 300+ year old problem. It probably didn't seem likely it'd be solved in ANOTHER 300 years either.

Still, I can't help but get some sense of satisfaction from knowing that our real world society was able to solve it mere years after the episode aired, and yet the perfect utopian race of humans 300 years into the future are still stumped.

[trekker670]

I just finished watching the first disc and I noticed in one of the early episodes (possibly Outrageous Okana) the transporter effect was off, like it was much more glittery, to the point where it was more of a silver version of the TOS effect than the TNG effect. I'm not sure if they were recreating it as it originally appeared or if this was one of the early hurdles HTV encountered.

[Trekker4747]

Jeyl wrote:

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Still, I can't help but get some sense of satisfaction from knowing that our real world society was able to solve it mere years after the episode aired, and yet the perfect utopian race of humans 300 years into the future are still stumped.

It's also likely the current solution is debated in the 24c or people are trying to find other solutions.

[Mott the barber]

davejames wrote:

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Yeah that was my concern about this ep from the very beginning-- that the Borg ship wouldn't hold up well at all in HD.

At the very least, it probably could have benefited from the more shadowy lighting CBS-D gave all the ships in S1, to hide some of the flaws and give it a bit more mystery.

I borderline almost wish they re-did the cube in CG. Many of the shots of it chasing the ship are just still shots panned and zoomed in. Like it was stated above, maybe if it didn't look so washed out in the remaster, they could've improved the look of the effect as it was originally and without CGI.

[jimbotron]

I'm OK with the effects as-is. At least they're the same effects as the original, though that's a double-edged sword.

I'll take lousy model work over lousy CGI anyday.

[Jeyl]

Trekker4747 wrote:

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It's also likely the current solution is debated in the 24c or people are trying to find other solutions.

Well, I'm not ready to give a writer credit for something he didn't bother to include, especially for a script that's as poorly written as The Royal. The whole entire point of even using Fermat's Last Theorem was just a means of brushing off questions this episode may have raised.

Riker: Why did this happen?
Picard: We may never know, JUST LIKE FERMAT'S LAST THEOREM!

Now you may add that not having the answers to everything can make a story more interesting, and I would agree. But remember, this episode takes place on a planet where the temperature is somehow below absolute zero with an alien species that put a single human in a poorly thought out recreation and left him to die. The reason we don't get any answers to these questions is because the writer simply wrote a 'situation' story, not an actual story that carries any meaning. Oh, it certainly tried to with the Theorem bit, but unfortunately, that didn't last.

[davejames]

Watched "Time Squared," and the time vortex effect looks absolutely spectacular in HD. Glad to see HTV didn't mess up that one at least.

There still isn't that much to the story (which seems to be a continuing issue with S2 eps so far), but the eerie music and Stewart's performance are so strong that somehow it all works anyway.

[Trekker4747]

Jeyl wrote:

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Well, I'm not ready to give a writer credit for something he didn't bother to include, especially for a script that's as poorly written as The Royal. The whole entire point of even using Fermat's Last Theorem was just a means of brushing off questions this episode may have raised.

Riker: Why did this happen?
Picard: We may never know, JUST LIKE FERMAT'S LAST THEOREM!

Now you may add that not having the answers to everything can make a story more interesting, and I would agree. But remember, this episode takes place on a planet where the temperature is somehow below absolute zero with an alien species that put a single human in a poorly thought out recreation and left him to die. The reason we don't get any answers to these questions is because the writer simply wrote a 'situation' story, not an actual story that carries any meaning. Oh, it certainly tried to with the Theorem bit, but unfortunately, that didn't last.

But you're judging the writers for not knowing something would happen. From their point of view the Theorem hadn't been solved in 300 years so they certainly didn't expect it to get solved inside the next 300 years let alone the next few. The thing is that knowing what we know NOW we have to rationalize the error so that it makes sense.

It's like how in "The Voyage Home" there's some lip service to Leningrad. Oops! They forgot to predict the fall of the Soviet Union and Leningrad reverting to Sait Petersberg. Are we going to blame the writers of TVH for failing to predict the fall of the Soviet Union and for the renaming of the city?

[trekker670]

I've gone through season 2 with an open mind and I've been pleasently surprised with the results (granted, I'm watching on a 32" 720p TV), however I found my first major issue (I find the transporter effect that I referred to above as minor) and it was with DNR.

I was watching "Schizoid Man" and as I watched the opening scene with Palaski walking down the corridor, looked very dull, as if there was a film or haze on the picture, almost like they didn't color correct properly or the contrast was off. I couldn't figure out why for several seconds, thinking maybe I was being too picky, but then I realized it was an effects shot. The continuous shot of Palaski from the corridor to the bridge via turbolift was vfx shot, done by chroma-keying the bridge in post production. There was significant spill once the turbolift doors reopen, especially around her hair. As soon as the cut to a new shot the clarity was back to what I expected.

I know it's not the end of the world, but after 5 episodes, this was the first time I was truly let down...

[Trekker4747]

trekker670 wrote:

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I know it's not the end of the world...

Welll.....

[Dick_Valentine]

jimbotron wrote:

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I'm OK with the effects as-is. At least they're the same effects as the original, though that's a double-edged sword.

I'll take lousy model work over lousy CGI anyday.

I think the point was it'd be decent CGI since they wouldn't have to worry too much about all the crap they have to go through (and it seems, mess up) with the model shots.

CGI gets such a bad rap here but it's not just a black and white "model good, CGI bad" situation.
There's good and bad of both kinds and seeing some of the poor work on this disk, (and even the good stuff making the 2ft model look downright awful, for example in the wormhole of Time Squared) I'm beginning to think they should've just CGI'd the whole lot.

Couldn't have been any WORSE, could it?

[BillJ]

Sure it could. Much of the TOS-R CGI was pretty poor and done by the same effects house that would be doing TNG-R.

[Tosk]

Why would anyone who doesn't like HTV's compositing want to trust them with replacing stuff with CGI?

[Dick_Valentine]

Maybe they'd have to outsource?

Hello foundation imaging or eden FX or anyone who did good work on later series DS9/Voyager

(Assuming those two companies aren't still going, but the people behind them still are somewhere.....)