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Old December 19 2012, 04:24 PM   #16
Star Wolf
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Star Grinch wrote: View Post
One of Starfleet's purposes is national defense. No matter how much Roddenberry is in denial about it, that means it's a military.
Well he came from an era when politics called for renaming military's of the word, thus the "People's Armies" when the people had no choice, the japanese Self Defense Forces.

But then we have our prejudices also. "Security" is not good enough for Ground Self Defense forces , they must be Starfleet Marines. And because Enterprise and Voyager's primary mission is not to seek out and destroy it is not a "Navy" but a Coast Guard with the finest weapons the Federation economy can supply
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Old December 19 2012, 06:35 PM   #17
KamenRiderBlade
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
KamenRiderBlade wrote: View Post
As far as I'm concerned.

Starfleet is a multi-discipline arm of the UFP.

It's one part Coast Guard
One part military
One part exploration
One part Diplomacy Corp.
One part research group
One part Engineering force.
Etc.
The US Coast Guard is a branch of the military, and everything else on that list can be done by the military and has. Even diplomacy, as there are times when foreign VIPs are ferried by military aircraft or navy boats. Constantly splitting hairs about "Starfleet is more than a military, Starfleet is multi-disciplined," and so on are unnecessary. Starfleet is the military, period. I don't care what Roddenberry said.
More like the US military is Multi-Disciplined.
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Old December 19 2012, 06:47 PM   #18
The Wormhole
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

KamenRiderBlade wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
KamenRiderBlade wrote: View Post
As far as I'm concerned.

Starfleet is a multi-discipline arm of the UFP.

It's one part Coast Guard
One part military
One part exploration
One part Diplomacy Corp.
One part research group
One part Engineering force.
Etc.
The US Coast Guard is a branch of the military, and everything else on that list can be done by the military and has. Even diplomacy, as there are times when foreign VIPs are ferried by military aircraft or navy boats. Constantly splitting hairs about "Starfleet is more than a military, Starfleet is multi-disciplined," and so on are unnecessary. Starfleet is the military, period. I don't care what Roddenberry said.
More like the US military is Multi-Disciplined.
Militaries of other countries are essentially the same. If this makes them "multi-disciplined," than I guess that is typical of what a military is, and Starfleet is no different.
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Old December 19 2012, 07:08 PM   #19
lurok
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Maybe I've grown up in a different era/culture but I've never considered Starfleet anything other than military. As someone mentioned upthread, akin to our RN. That's why Reed joined after all. Next best thing
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Old December 20 2012, 12:59 AM   #20
jayrath
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
The only notable difference is that Starfleet has a larger science division than navies/militaries of today.
Please tell me what branch of any country's military today has a science division?
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Old December 20 2012, 01:10 AM   #21
Star Wolf
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

jayrath wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
The only notable difference is that Starfleet has a larger science division than navies/militaries of today.
Please tell me what branch of any country's military today has a science division?
In the United States all of them.

http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org...redit.a1100135
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Old December 20 2012, 01:28 AM   #22
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

I can think of a way to end this debate really easily.

Okay lets think of a sci-fi series close to Star Trek, for this I'll go with Space Battleship Yamato since its kind of star treky even has the color coded divisions thing for its starship crew.

Alright does the crew from Space Battleship Yamato do basically the same job as the typical Starfleet crew? Answer: Pretty much.

Are they members of the military? Answer: Yes.

So case closed Starfleet = military.
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Old December 20 2012, 10:08 AM   #23
The Green Mushroom
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

As the original poster and someone who hasn't been around in a while, I just want to clear something up.

Did I give the implication that the USCG is not the military? Because that could not be further from the truth, even if the coast guards of other countries are civilian organizations.
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Old December 20 2012, 10:14 AM   #24
KamenRiderBlade
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
I can think of a way to end this debate really easily.

Okay lets think of a sci-fi series close to Star Trek, for this I'll go with Space Battleship Yamato since its kind of star treky even has the color coded divisions thing for its starship crew.

Alright does the crew from Space Battleship Yamato do basically the same job as the typical Starfleet crew? Answer: Pretty much.

Are they members of the military? Answer: Yes.

So case closed Starfleet = military.
I think most of us agree that Starfleet = military.

This shouldn't be a point of debate.

IMO, Starfleet = military + many other disciplines
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Old December 20 2012, 02:34 PM   #25
The Wormhole
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

The Green Mushroom wrote: View Post
As the original poster and someone who hasn't been around in a while, I just want to clear something up.

Did I give the implication that the USCG is not the military? Because that could not be further from the truth, even if the coast guards of other countries are civilian organizations.
The thread title impliees you believe Starfleet is more Coast Guard than it is Navy, even though you have not really provided any ocnivincing reasons for why it is more Coast Guard or less Navy.

KamenRiderBlade wrote: View Post
IMO, Starfleet = military + many other disciplines
But that's just redundant since the "many other disciplines" are all military jobs or responsibilities anyway.
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Old December 20 2012, 11:55 PM   #26
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

The Green Mushroom wrote: View Post
As the original poster and someone who hasn't been around in a while, I just want to clear something up.

Did I give the implication that the USCG is not the military? Because that could not be further from the truth, even if the coast guards of other countries are civilian organizations.
Um, actually, the USCG is a military that the government pretends isn't a miltary, so that it doesn't violate the posse comitatus act.
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Old December 21 2012, 01:04 AM   #27
J.T.B.
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Darkwing wrote: View Post
Um, actually, the USCG is a military that the government pretends isn't a miltary, so that it doesn't violate the posse comitatus act.
The Revenue Marine/Revenue Cutter Service was operating the same way the USCG does today (maritime law enforcement in peacetime, under the navy in wartime) long before that act.
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Old December 21 2012, 01:11 AM   #28
nightwind1
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Darkwing wrote: View Post
Um, actually, the USCG is a military that the government pretends isn't a miltary, so that it doesn't violate the posse comitatus act.
The Revenue Marine/Revenue Cutter Service was operating the same way the USCG does today (maritime law enforcement in peacetime, under the navy in wartime) long before that act.
Way before. The Revenue Cutter Service was formed shortly after the Revolution.

And actually, it evolved INTO the Coast Guard.

We celebrated the 200th Birthday of the USCG on August 4th, 1990, while I was in service.

nightwind1
USCG Petty Officer 3rd Class, 1988-1993

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Last edited by nightwind1; December 21 2012 at 01:26 AM.
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Old December 21 2012, 03:53 AM   #29
The Wormhole
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Darkwing wrote: View Post
the USCG is a military that the government pretends isn't a miltary,
Well, when you put it that way, I guess it is like Starfleet.
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Old December 21 2012, 04:26 AM   #30
section9
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Re: Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Go back to Gene Roddenberry's personal service history and you'll see why he designed "Starfleet" the way he did.

Roddenberry was a bomber pilot with the 13th Air Force in the South Pacific during the War. The largest presence in everyone's life was the Pacific Fleet. There were thousands of ships in the big Blue Fleet (all were painted Haze Grey, btw), and the comings and goings of the gray supply ships were a constant presence in Roddenberry's life (he won the DFC, btw).

Starfleet is based on, if nothing else, the Pacific Fleet of World War II, a vast armada that as much as any instrument of war, played the most prominent role in the strangulation and reduction of the Japanese Empire. Roddenberry had a more pacific and scientific role in mind for Starfleet, but in the confident era of pre-Vietnam America that gave birth to Star Trek, Star Fleet was an armada that was fit to fight, and ready to fight.
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