Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

[Star Wolf]

Star Grinch wrote:

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One of Starfleet's purposes is national defense. No matter how much Roddenberry is in denial about it, that means it's a military.

Well he came from an era when politics called for renaming military's of the word, thus the "People's Armies" when the people had no choice, the japanese Self Defense Forces.

But then we have our prejudices also. "Security" is not good enough for Ground Self Defense forces , they must be Starfleet Marines. And because Enterprise and Voyager's primary mission is not to seek out and destroy it is not a "Navy" but a Coast Guard with the finest weapons the Federation economy can supply

[KamenRiderBlade]

The Wormhole wrote:

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The US Coast Guard is a branch of the military, and everything else on that list can be done by the military and has. Even diplomacy, as there are times when foreign VIPs are ferried by military aircraft or navy boats. Constantly splitting hairs about "Starfleet is more than a military, Starfleet is multi-disciplined," and so on are unnecessary. Starfleet is the military, period. I don't care what Roddenberry said.

More like the US military is Multi-Disciplined.

[The Wormhole]

KamenRiderBlade wrote:

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More like the US military is Multi-Disciplined.

Militaries of other countries are essentially the same. If this makes them "multi-disciplined," than I guess that is typical of what a military is, and Starfleet is no different.

[lurok]

Maybe I've grown up in a different era/culture but I've never considered Starfleet anything other than military. As someone mentioned upthread, akin to our RN. That's why Reed joined after all. Next best thing

[jayrath]

The Wormhole wrote:

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The only notable difference is that Starfleet has a larger science division than navies/militaries of today.

Please tell me what branch of any country's military today has a science division?

[Star Wolf]

jayrath wrote:

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Please tell me what branch of any country's military today has a science division?

In the United States all of them.

http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org...redit.a1100135

[Hartzilla2007]

I can think of a way to end this debate really easily.

Okay lets think of a sci-fi series close to Star Trek, for this I'll go with Space Battleship Yamato since its kind of star treky even has the color coded divisions thing for its starship crew.

Alright does the crew from Space Battleship Yamato do basically the same job as the typical Starfleet crew? Answer: Pretty much.

Are they members of the military? Answer: Yes.

So case closed Starfleet = military.

[The Green Mushroom]

As the original poster and someone who hasn't been around in a while, I just want to clear something up.

Did I give the implication that the USCG is not the military? Because that could not be further from the truth, even if the coast guards of other countries are civilian organizations.

[KamenRiderBlade]

Hartzilla2007 wrote:

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I can think of a way to end this debate really easily.

Okay lets think of a sci-fi series close to Star Trek, for this I'll go with Space Battleship Yamato since its kind of star treky even has the color coded divisions thing for its starship crew.

Alright does the crew from Space Battleship Yamato do basically the same job as the typical Starfleet crew? Answer: Pretty much.

Are they members of the military? Answer: Yes.

So case closed Starfleet = military.

I think most of us agree that Starfleet = military.

This shouldn't be a point of debate.

IMO, Starfleet = military + many other disciplines

[The Wormhole]

The Green Mushroom wrote:

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As the original poster and someone who hasn't been around in a while, I just want to clear something up.

Did I give the implication that the USCG is not the military? Because that could not be further from the truth, even if the coast guards of other countries are civilian organizations.

The thread title impliees you believe Starfleet is more Coast Guard than it is Navy, even though you have not really provided any ocnivincing reasons for why it is more Coast Guard or less Navy.

KamenRiderBlade wrote:

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IMO, Starfleet = military + many other disciplines

But that's just redundant since the "many other disciplines" are all military jobs or responsibilities anyway.

[Darkwing]

The Green Mushroom wrote:

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As the original poster and someone who hasn't been around in a while, I just want to clear something up.

Did I give the implication that the USCG is not the military? Because that could not be further from the truth, even if the coast guards of other countries are civilian organizations.

Um, actually, the USCG is a military that the government pretends isn't a miltary, so that it doesn't violate the posse comitatus act.

[J.T.B.]

Darkwing wrote:

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Um, actually, the USCG is a military that the government pretends isn't a miltary, so that it doesn't violate the posse comitatus act.

The Revenue Marine/Revenue Cutter Service was operating the same way the USCG does today (maritime law enforcement in peacetime, under the navy in wartime) long before that act.

[nightwind1]

J.T.B. wrote:

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The Revenue Marine/Revenue Cutter Service was operating the same way the USCG does today (maritime law enforcement in peacetime, under the navy in wartime) long before that act.

Way before. The Revenue Cutter Service was formed shortly after the Revolution.

And actually, it evolved INTO the Coast Guard.

We celebrated the 200th Birthday of the USCG on August 4th, 1990, while I was in service.

nightwind1
USCG Petty Officer 3rd Class, 1988-1993

Semper Paratus

[The Wormhole]

Darkwing wrote:

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the USCG is a military that the government pretends isn't a miltary,

Well, when you put it that way, I guess it is like Starfleet.

[section9]

Go back to Gene Roddenberry's personal service history and you'll see why he designed "Starfleet" the way he did.

Roddenberry was a bomber pilot with the 13th Air Force in the South Pacific during the War. The largest presence in everyone's life was the Pacific Fleet. There were thousands of ships in the big Blue Fleet (all were painted Haze Grey, btw), and the comings and goings of the gray supply ships were a constant presence in Roddenberry's life (he won the DFC, btw).

Starfleet is based on, if nothing else, the Pacific Fleet of World War II, a vast armada that as much as any instrument of war, played the most prominent role in the strangulation and reduction of the Japanese Empire. Roddenberry had a more pacific and scientific role in mind for Starfleet, but in the confident era of pre-Vietnam America that gave birth to Star Trek, Star Fleet was an armada that was fit to fight, and ready to fight.