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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old December 19 2012, 01:22 AM   #1756
Beta-Z
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

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Old December 19 2012, 06:12 PM   #1757
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Watched "The Royale" for the first time in awhile, and it still seems like a huge missed opportunity. It's got that very cool and creepy scene with the dead astronaut in the hotel room, and a great idea in this fantasy world living on without him, but unfortunately the scenes in the actual casino are about as dull and tedious as can be.

Basically Riker and Worf just wander around aimlessly for an hour, and Data plays a little blackjack, and... that's about it. None of the casino characters register in the slightest, and even for a bad novel there isn't much of a story to care about.

Apparently the original script was supposed to be a lot more surreal and comedic, so it would be interesting to read that someday.
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Old December 19 2012, 07:45 PM   #1758
Jeyl
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Would you consider the Royale to be an example of sticking to the script even though the details of it are completely contradicting to what we are seeing?

Data: He's been dead for 283 years sir. The lack of any advanced decomposition is due to the sterile environment.

And yet, it's a freaking skeleton. Why didn't they just say it was a skeleton? Why does the dialogue imply that we should be seeing a somewhat preserved body when we're looking at a skeleton with skin flakes underneath it?
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Old December 19 2012, 09:10 PM   #1759
MikeS
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Would you consider the Royale to be an example of sticking to the script even though the details of it are completely contradicting to what we are seeing?

Data: He's been dead for 283 years sir. The lack of any advanced decomposition is due to the sterile environment.

And yet, it's a freaking skeleton. Why didn't they just say it was a skeleton? Why does the dialogue imply that we should be seeing a somewhat preserved body when we're looking at a skeleton with skin flakes underneath it?
Do you know what... I feel very stupid as I had never noticed that before.
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Old December 19 2012, 09:48 PM   #1760
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Just finished Q Who in my linear watch-through and the compositing of the Borg cube really does look pretty bad. Very flat and gray looking.

MikeS wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
Would you consider the Royale to be an example of sticking to the script even though the details of it are completely contradicting to what we are seeing?

Data: He's been dead for 283 years sir. The lack of any advanced decomposition is due to the sterile environment.

And yet, it's a freaking skeleton. Why didn't they just say it was a skeleton? Why does the dialogue imply that we should be seeing a somewhat preserved body when we're looking at a skeleton with skin flakes underneath it?
Do you know what... I feel very stupid as I had never noticed that before.
I always assumed Data meant that the skeleton was still somewhat preserved and not crumbled completely to dust. But, on thinking about it more, Jeyl is probably correct.
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Old December 19 2012, 10:05 PM   #1761
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Would you consider the Royale to be an example of sticking to the script even though the details of it are completely contradicting to what we are seeing?

Data: He's been dead for 283 years sir. The lack of any advanced decomposition is due to the sterile environment.

And yet, it's a freaking skeleton. Why didn't they just say it was a skeleton? Why does the dialogue imply that we should be seeing a somewhat preserved body when we're looking at a skeleton with skin flakes underneath it?
I always assumed a nearly 300 year old body decomposing in non-sterile environment would look a heck of a lot worse that what we see in the episode. Never dawned on me that was a mistake of any kind.
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Old December 19 2012, 11:10 PM   #1762
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
Would you consider the Royale to be an example of sticking to the script even though the details of it are completely contradicting to what we are seeing?

Data: He's been dead for 283 years sir. The lack of any advanced decomposition is due to the sterile environment.

And yet, it's a freaking skeleton. Why didn't they just say it was a skeleton? Why does the dialogue imply that we should be seeing a somewhat preserved body when we're looking at a skeleton with skin flakes underneath it?
I always assumed a nearly 300 year old body decomposing in non-sterile environment would look a heck of a lot worse that what we see in the episode. Never dawned on me that was a mistake of any kind.
Yeah me either. In reality, after that many years, it would be a lot worse.
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Old December 19 2012, 11:12 PM   #1763
Jeyl
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I always assumed a nearly 300 year old body decomposing in non-sterile environment would look a heck of a lot worse that what we see in the episode. Never dawned on me that was a mistake of any kind.
It's almost like the script was meant to portray the dead body as though it was still in good condition, as if they could have had an actor actually in the bed. This would account for Riker's comment:

"Looks like the poor fellow died in his sleep."

And it would have been very simple. Have the actor appear to be resting peacefully but motionless and all the dialogue would fit. But when his corpse is a skeleton with a huge gaping mouth, I'm not going to buy the "died in his sleep" idea. After all, we're in a simulation of a book where mob guys who openly murder people in crowded casinos.
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Old December 19 2012, 11:21 PM   #1764
Mott the barber
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I always assumed a nearly 300 year old body decomposing in non-sterile environment would look a heck of a lot worse that what we see in the episode. Never dawned on me that was a mistake of any kind.
It's almost like the script was meant to portray the dead body as though it was still in good condition, as if they could have had an actor actually in the bed. This would account for Riker's comment:

"Looks like the poor fellow died in his sleep."

And it would have been very simple. Have the actor appear to be resting peacefully but motionless and all the dialogue would fit. But when his corpse is a skeleton with a huge gaping mouth, I'm not going to buy the "died in his sleep" idea. After all, we're in a simulation of a book where mob guys who openly murder people in crowded casinos.
Haha, fair enough.
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Old December 19 2012, 11:26 PM   #1765
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

LitmusDragon wrote: View Post
Just finished Q Who in my linear watch-through and the compositing of the Borg cube really does look pretty bad. Very flat and gray looking.
Agreed. It looks more like a bunch of plastic sprues than it did when it was a bunch of plastic sprues.
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Old December 19 2012, 11:40 PM   #1766
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Last night I returned to watching some TNG and got up to Unnatural Selection, and I'm starting to agree with the people who had major issues with the compositing/remastering going on here. When I got to the scene were we see an ultimate close up of the bridge area between the Warp Nacelles, I was thinking, This is way too white, and way to bland. Remastering is supposed to jump out at you just with how clear and sharp it looked and this scene just didn't look sharp at all.

With that being said, I am still happy I bought the set from a completest point of view, and the special features were amazing, but every day I'm looking more forward to Season 3 and the return of what I think TNG Remastering should be, set by example from Season 1.
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Old December 19 2012, 11:46 PM   #1767
Maxwell Everett
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I always assumed a nearly 300 year old body decomposing in non-sterile environment would look a heck of a lot worse that what we see in the episode. Never dawned on me that was a mistake of any kind.
It's almost like the script was meant to portray the dead body as though it was still in good condition, as if they could have had an actor actually in the bed. This would account for Riker's comment:

"Looks like the poor fellow died in his sleep."

And it would have been very simple. Have the actor appear to be resting peacefully but motionless and all the dialogue would fit. But when his corpse is a skeleton with a huge gaping mouth, I'm not going to buy the "died in his sleep" idea. After all, we're in a simulation of a book where mob guys who openly murder people in crowded casinos.
The script specifies, "a skeletal figure -- long dead and decaying." Based on the final look of the corpse in the episode, I think what was intended was a kind of natural, partial mummification like this.

Compare that to the body in "The Royale."

Remember that Data doesn't say, "the lack of any decomposition" he says, "the lack of any advanced decomposition." This would be advanced decomposition. So, I don't think it's that far off personally. If Data had also said, in addition to the environment being sterile, that the climate in the building was unusually dry and arid, I would think that what we see in the episode would be dead-on.
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Old December 20 2012, 01:31 AM   #1768
Jeyl
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
The script specifies, "a skeletal figure -- long dead and decaying."
What we saw in the episode is definitely beyond the advanced stage of decomposition, since the advanced stage is the "end of the active decay process". If this corpse was at a stage before advanced, it wouldn't be dry to the point where it's skin has flaked off the bone.

Also remember that this is a writer who wrote a planet's temperature being -291 degrees celsius (That's below absolute zero) and assumed that we would never be able to solve Fermat's last theorem.
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Old December 20 2012, 01:59 AM   #1769
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Ar-Festivus wrote: View Post
LitmusDragon wrote: View Post
Just finished Q Who in my linear watch-through and the compositing of the Borg cube really does look pretty bad. Very flat and gray looking.
Agreed. It looks more like a bunch of plastic sprues than it did when it was a bunch of plastic sprues.
Yeah that was my concern about this ep from the very beginning-- that the Borg ship wouldn't hold up well at all in HD.

At the very least, it probably could have benefited from the more shadowy lighting CBS-D gave all the ships in S1, to hide some of the flaws and give it a bit more mystery.
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Old December 20 2012, 04:53 AM   #1770
Maxwell Everett
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
The script specifies, "a skeletal figure -- long dead and decaying."
What we saw in the episode is definitely beyond the advanced stage of decomposition, since the advanced stage is the "end of the active decay process". If this corpse was at a stage before advanced, it wouldn't be dry to the point where it's skin has flaked off the bone.

Also remember that this is a writer who wrote a planet's temperature being -291 degrees celsius (That's below absolute zero) and assumed that we would never be able to solve Fermat's last theorem.
I won't argue that the episode's science is iron clad -- it clearly isn't. And you're probably right that the condition of the remains could likely be considered advanced in decomposition. But further decay could still conceivably occur if Richey's corpse is indeed mummified. If the tissue were dessicated due to an extreme drying out, then by simply exposing the remains to moisture the decay process would continue. One thing's for sure: the remains are clearly not simply skeletal.

Now, I'm not sure I agree with your suggestion that Richey should have been depicted as a normal person resting peacefully. More likely, he should have maybe looked more like Ötzi the Iceman, which could be explained by the earlier dialogue (I know it's incorrect) of extreme coldness on the planet. I think perfect preservation would be highly unlikely though.

But on this we can both agree, Data's dialogue needed to be tweaked to closer match what we see on screen because it doesn't really matter that the environment is sterile -- Richey would've had live bacteria in his gut. Either my suggestion where Data adds that the environment in the building is (or was before they got there) extremely dry... or stating explicitly that Richey's been mummified. Maybe something like this:

DATA
He has been dead for two hundred
eighty-three years. The partial
mummification is due to the unusually
dry environment.
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