Was Voyager better?

USS Kongo · December 18 2012, 11:24 PM

I was watching some episodes of TNG, and when I then watched Voyager, I noticed something. Voyager seemed to have a better sense of community than TNG. The characters on Voyager were more friendlier and more comfortable towards each other than on TNG, where they were oftetimes seemed very stiff and formal.

This may be due mainly to the fact that Voyager is a lost ship that's off by itself, creating more of a sense of camaraderie among the people aboard. What's your take?

R. Star · December 18 2012, 11:32 PM

The TNG command clique was very standoffish towards anyone outside their little social circle. Look at Jellico, Barclay and Ro Laren for perfect examples. Inside it, they were reasonably loose with the exception of Picard, but he's the CO so distancing himself a bit can be expected. Voyager? Really the first three seasons just centered heavily on Janeway, with the rest of the characters being glorified support characters. Seasons 4-7, it became a trifecta with Janeway, Seven and the Doctor. As for how they got along? Janeway ruled with an iron fist, Chakotay had to have been castrated to explain his transformation from someone who might have been interesting after the pilot, everyone loved to make fun of Harry, the Doctor and Neelix at various points. Torres was never friendly at all really. Seven was openly hostile to most everyone. Kes and Neelix really were the only genuinely friendly ones and Neelix was so in your face about it you just wanted to punch him. The TNG crew may have been standoffish towards outsiders, but they were never at each other's throats like the Voyager crew was at times.

teacake · December 18 2012, 11:32 PM

Smaller ship, more need to build the idea that they were family (something Janeway excels at) since they were quite likely to never see their families again. The Enterprise was a like a huge office building doing the work of a big corporation. Voyager was like a small business with an exciting vision for the future. Budweiser vs a craft beer.

Simple things like the actors standing closer to each other than they do in TNG. Far more humor, less taking itself seriously. Liveliness. I find a lot of TNG scenes fairly stiff whereas with VOY you get the EMH's hyperbole, Janeway's touching everyone and very expressive face, Neelix bouncing around.. they had some excellent actors who interacted with a lot of body language, playing off each other rather than reciting lines.

Guy Gardener · December 18 2012, 11:34 PM

They didn't have toilets on the Enterprise D,

Imagine holding it in for 7 years?

R. Star · December 18 2012, 11:36 PM

Guy Gardener wrote:

They didn't have toilets on the Enterprise D,

Imagine holding it in for 7 years?

They did too. There was one. The lines didn't improve crew morale though.

JirinPanthosa · December 19 2012, 12:31 AM

I think it has something to do with TNG being bound by the Roddenberry Box and not Voyager. Roddenberry had a strict edict not to have interpersonal conflict within the crew. Heck, even when Worf refused to save Crusher's patient's life they barely referenced it later except through one throwaway line. Without the interpersonal conflict, they couldn't have those bonding moments after the conflict was resolved.

Also over half the main cast was really, really introverted. The only extraverts in the cast were Riker, Troi, Crusher and O'Brien.

Introverts? Picard Data Worf Geordi Ro Barclay Pulaski Wesley. Roddenberry really liked quiet geniuses. Pretty much all the recurring characters except for O'Brien.

USS Kongo · December 19 2012, 05:00 AM

teacake wrote:

The Enterprise was a like a huge office building doing the work of a big corporation. Voyager was like a small business with an exciting vision for the future. Budweiser vs a craft beer.

I like that. Well stated. Voyager really does strike me as being a little more relaxed than the usual starship crew, which is part of what's drawing me to it now.

JohnChod · December 19 2012, 10:53 AM

But isn't that one of the problems with Voyager? The pilot set us up with two very different crews and suggested the real possibility of conflict within the crew, which would have been a good source of drama. Then, that potential was very rarely tapped.

Guy Gardener · December 19 2012, 10:59 AM

The Pilot didn't suggest that there would be conflict, it yelped that that their continued unity was astonishing. It was a riveting accomplishment that nothing happened!

lurok · December 19 2012, 11:12 AM

I think those godawful TNG uniforms probably contributed to stiffness/awkwardness as well

And Janeway is far slinkier than Picard.

AllStarEntprise · December 19 2012, 12:09 PM

jinglebellrok wrote:

I think those godawful TNG uniforms probably contributed to stiffness/awkwardness as well

And Janeway is far slinkier than Picard.

In one of the interviews on the DVD's Stewart said they had to change to the 2 piece uniforms because of his back. Constantly pulling the actors up right. Allegedly they had people with steamers to come on before scenes to get rid of the wrinkles and keep the slender look of season 1 and 2 TNG uniforms. Hilarious really.

Bishop76 · December 19 2012, 02:06 PM

JohnChod wrote:

But isn't that one of the problems with Voyager? The pilot set us up with two very different crews and suggested the real possibility of conflict within the crew, which would have been a good source of drama. Then, that potential was very rarely tapped.

I agree - the unity of the crew was one of the drawbacks of the show because we were told there would be strife and it was never delivered.

Also, I can't agree with the basic premise just based on the fact that the characters on Voyager were less interesting than the paper they were written on. That's not to say the TNG characters were rolling in depth, but even the actors from Voyager complain about how bland their characters were.

King Daniel · December 19 2012, 03:15 PM

Voyager > The Next Generation. The crew had a chemistry that the Next Genners lacked.

BillJ · December 19 2012, 05:00 PM

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote:

Voyager > The Next Generation. The crew had a chemistry that the Next Genners lacked.

But Next Gen didn't have shitty retread scripts and a captain who yo-yo'd from one extreme to the other on a weekly basis.

Definitely going to say that Next Gen was the better show, but Voyager had its charms.

sonak · December 19 2012, 05:35 PM

I assume this is a question based on camaraderie and not just an overall comparison of the shows.

I agree that the TNG senior staff characters, especially early on, could come across as very stiff. But I don't think that holds for later seasons. Sure, you had Picard and Worf who were more aloof and distant, but overall the characters were pretty tight-knit by the later seasons.

Voyager tried to have an early DS9 feel to it with the characters, with them not getting along and the Starfleet vs. the non-Starfleet interests. But they dropped that early on in favor of the "we're all a big family" theme, which was just not very realistic considering their being stranded and split between the two crews.

December 18 2012, 11:24 PM	#1
USS Kongo Fleet Captain	Was Voyager better? I was watching some episodes of TNG, and when I then watched Voyager, I noticed something. Voyager seemed to have a better sense of community than TNG. The characters on Voyager were more friendlier and more comfortable towards each other than on TNG, where they were oftetimes seemed very stiff and formal. This may be due mainly to the fact that Voyager is a lost ship that's off by itself, creating more of a sense of camaraderie among the people aboard. What's your take? __________________ MY DVD Review Site Like Ghost Stories? Read My Book! Last edited by USS Kongo; December 19 2012 at 08:03 PM.

December 18 2012, 11:32 PM	#2
R. Star Commodore Location: Terra 3	Re: Was Voyager better? The TNG command clique was very standoffish towards anyone outside their little social circle. Look at Jellico, Barclay and Ro Laren for perfect examples. Inside it, they were reasonably loose with the exception of Picard, but he's the CO so distancing himself a bit can be expected. Voyager? Really the first three seasons just centered heavily on Janeway, with the rest of the characters being glorified support characters. Seasons 4-7, it became a trifecta with Janeway, Seven and the Doctor. As for how they got along? Janeway ruled with an iron fist, Chakotay had to have been castrated to explain his transformation from someone who might have been interesting after the pilot, everyone loved to make fun of Harry, the Doctor and Neelix at various points. Torres was never friendly at all really. Seven was openly hostile to most everyone. Kes and Neelix really were the only genuinely friendly ones and Neelix was so in your face about it you just wanted to punch him. The TNG crew may have been standoffish towards outsiders, but they were never at each other's throats like the Voyager crew was at times. __________________ "I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams

December 18 2012, 11:32 PM	#3
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Was Voyager better? Smaller ship, more need to build the idea that they were family (something Janeway excels at) since they were quite likely to never see their families again. The Enterprise was a like a huge office building doing the work of a big corporation. Voyager was like a small business with an exciting vision for the future. Budweiser vs a craft beer. Simple things like the actors standing closer to each other than they do in TNG. Far more humor, less taking itself seriously. Liveliness. I find a lot of TNG scenes fairly stiff whereas with VOY you get the EMH's hyperbole, Janeway's touching everyone and very expressive face, Neelix bouncing around.. they had some excellent actors who interacted with a lot of body language, playing off each other rather than reciting lines. __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

December 18 2012, 11:34 PM	#4
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Was Voyager better? They didn't have toilets on the Enterprise D, Imagine holding it in for 7 years? __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

December 19 2012, 12:31 AM	#6
JirinPanthosa Captain	Re: Was Voyager better? I think it has something to do with TNG being bound by the Roddenberry Box and not Voyager. Roddenberry had a strict edict not to have interpersonal conflict within the crew. Heck, even when Worf refused to save Crusher's patient's life they barely referenced it later except through one throwaway line. Without the interpersonal conflict, they couldn't have those bonding moments after the conflict was resolved. Also over half the main cast was really, really introverted. The only extraverts in the cast were Riker, Troi, Crusher and O'Brien. Introverts? Picard Data Worf Geordi Ro Barclay Pulaski Wesley. Roddenberry really liked quiet geniuses. Pretty much all the recurring characters except for O'Brien.

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December 19 2012, 10:53 AM	#8
JohnChod Captain Location: Buffalo, NY (USA)	Re: Was Voyager better? But isn't that one of the problems with Voyager? The pilot set us up with two very different crews and suggested the real possibility of conflict within the crew, which would have been a good source of drama. Then, that potential was very rarely tapped.

December 19 2012, 10:59 AM	#9
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Was Voyager better? The Pilot didn't suggest that there would be conflict, it yelped that that their continued unity was astonishing. It was a riveting accomplishment that nothing happened! __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

December 19 2012, 11:12 AM	#10
lurok Commodore Location: Lost In The EU Expanse	Re: Was Voyager better? I think those godawful TNG uniforms probably contributed to stiffness/awkwardness as well And Janeway is far slinkier than Picard.

December 19 2012, 03:15 PM	#13
King Daniel Admiral Location: KingDaniel has fallen Into Darkness (in England)	Re: Was Voyager better? Voyager > The Next Generation. The crew had a chemistry that the Next Genners lacked. __________________ Star Trek Imponderables, fun video mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors. Episode One Episode Two

December 19 2012, 05:35 PM	#15
sonak Rear Admiral Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination	Re: Was Voyager better? I assume this is a question based on camaraderie and not just an overall comparison of the shows. I agree that the TNG senior staff characters, especially early on, could come across as very stiff. But I don't think that holds for later seasons. Sure, you had Picard and Worf who were more aloof and distant, but overall the characters were pretty tight-knit by the later seasons. Voyager tried to have an early DS9 feel to it with the characters, with them not getting along and the Starfleet vs. the non-Starfleet interests. But they dropped that early on in favor of the "we're all a big family" theme, which was just not very realistic considering their being stranded and split between the two crews.