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Old December 18 2012, 02:33 AM   #16
Ian Keldon
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

^Hey, like I said, I'm not implying "causality". I'm just asking if there is a connection between the mindsets. I've also noticed a tendency among Trek fans to be technophiles. (That being ironic since one of the prime lessons Trek imparts is to be wary of technology and to hold on to one's humanity.)
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Old December 18 2012, 02:41 AM   #17
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

It took me half the thread to figure out what "prepper" meant. I was picturing a bunch of stuck-up preppy hipsters standing in line for the zombie apocalypse at the Apple store.
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Old December 18 2012, 02:59 AM   #18
Kegg
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
I've also noticed a tendency among Trek fans to be technophiles. (That being ironic since one of the prime lessons Trek imparts is to be wary of technology and to hold on to one's humanity.)
Star Trek is very pro-technology as a rule. It's just not pro-technology at the expense of one's humanity. Kirk might freak out at Roger Korby's android-replacing-humanity nonsense, but in the same episode he's all for phasers, communicators, teleportation and starships.
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Old December 18 2012, 03:56 AM   #19
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

You can explore many of the same themes presented in the "Walking dead" with a show about colonizing a new planet or being stranded on an uncharted island (*cough* Lost) except for one. The bleak reality of eventuality succumbing to the zombie horde.

That's what I find interesting about post apocalyptic fiction. There is no hope so why is that so compelling.
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Old December 18 2012, 04:34 AM   #20
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
TEOTWAWKI books, films, etc have never been more popular, and I think I know why. I see a LOT of crossover between Poc fans and "preppers". I've visited a few prepper sites, and listened to preppers talk. I know a few preppers, even.

One of the themes that comes up over and over and over in a lot of prepper circles is a certain barely hidden sense of anticipation over the idea that our civilization could collaspe either from within or without, resulting in the deaths of the overwhelming majority of the population...except for those virtuous souls of course who are "prepared". Everyone else? The world is better off w/o them.

Are any of your "preppers"? Are you also Poc fans? Do you know any? Would they, if they were honest, agree with what I said?
Pro-Tip: You should stop associating your inability to separate reality from fiction with the behavior of normal adults.
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Old December 18 2012, 05:38 AM   #21
Nerys Myk
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

Zom-poc? Is that near Lompoc?
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Old December 18 2012, 06:41 AM   #22
Ian Keldon
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

Kegg wrote: View Post
Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
I've also noticed a tendency among Trek fans to be technophiles. (That being ironic since one of the prime lessons Trek imparts is to be wary of technology and to hold on to one's humanity.)
Star Trek is very pro-technology as a rule. It's just not pro-technology at the expense of one's humanity. Kirk might freak out at Roger Korby's android-replacing-humanity nonsense, but in the same episode he's all for phasers, communicators, teleportation and starships.
That's another way to put it...
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Old December 18 2012, 06:43 AM   #23
Ian Keldon
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

HoHoHocutus wrote: View Post
Pro-Tip: You should stop associating your inability to separate reality from fiction with the behavior of normal adults.
Pro-Tip: You should stop posting in my threads if you can't stay on topic.
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Old December 18 2012, 07:06 AM   #24
Nerys Myk
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
HoHoHocutus wrote: View Post
Pro-Tip: You should stop associating your inability to separate reality from fiction with the behavior of normal adults.
Pro-Tip: You should stop posting in my threads if you can't stay on topic.
It doesn't work that way.
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Old December 18 2012, 08:42 AM   #25
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
HoHoHocutus wrote: View Post
Pro-Tip: You should stop associating your inability to separate reality from fiction with the behavior of normal adults.
Pro-Tip: You should stop posting in my threads if you can't stay on topic.
You have suggested that people are immoral for liking certain genre characters, and now you're suggesting that people who enjoy zombie and post-apocalyptic films/TV/books/games are misanthropes who secretly long for the end of the world. I think questioning your logic on this matter and your inability to make a distinction between fictional entertainment and reality is perfectly relevant to the topic at hand. Furthermore, when you start off with such a provocative premise, you can't expect that all the responses are going to be full of puppies and rainbows.
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Old December 18 2012, 08:58 AM   #26
Ian Keldon
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

HoHoHocutus wrote: View Post

You have suggested that people are immoral for liking certain genre characters,
To the point of dressing like them and emulating them when they are villain characters of a particularly vile type, yes.

and now you're suggesting that people who enjoy zombie and post-apocalyptic films/TV/books/games are misanthropes who secretly long for the end of the world.
Go read some of the stuff that gets said on some of the hard-core prepper sites. They'll outright TELL you that they'd be perfectly happy for 99% of the world's population to die because in the preppers' opinion they don't deserve to live.

I think questioning your logic on this matter and your inability to make a distinction between fictional entertainment and reality is perfectly relevant to the topic at hand.
I am perfectly aware of the difference between fiction and real life, just as you are perfectly aware of the point I was actually making that you just didn't want to address: that it is morally repugnant to declare yourself a fan of an organization, real OR fictional, that commits or committed heinously barbaric acts and crimes against humanity (or sentient life in the case of SW).

And yes, stormtroopers DID do those things in the service of the Imperial military, which had well-known codes for committing planetary-scale genocide (Base Delta Zero), and which built Death Stars to make it even EASIER to commit planetary-scale genocide.

No sane, moral person would ever dress up as a Nazi and proclaim themselves "fans" of those evil people, nor would any sane, moral person ever dress up as an Imperial Stormtrooper and declare themselves "fans" of those evil people. Justifying it as "it's just fiction" is no excuse.

Now back on topic:

Furthermore, when you start off with such a provocative premise, you can't expect that all the responses are going to be full of puppies and rainbows.
No but I expect them to be on topic, which your comment wasn't.
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Old December 18 2012, 09:28 AM   #27
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

Gonna Godwin your own thread? Robinson Crusoe and I say bullshit on your view of folks and the fiction they enjoy.
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Old December 18 2012, 01:44 PM   #28
Kegg
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
I am perfectly aware of the difference between fiction and real life, just as you are perfectly aware of the point I was actually making that you just didn't want to address: that it is morally repugnant to declare yourself a fan of an organization, real OR fictional,
Within the same paragraph you claim you understand the difference between the division of reality and fantasy and then group admiration for real criminals with love of something in make believe.

Locutus has a point here, that's just a really ridiculous way to present any argument. If one wants to talk about say the misanthropic subtext to apocalyptic fantasies, that is a different thing than claiming people who enjoy them are automatically misanthropic. There are all kinds of problematic or iffy things in entertainment - some of it genuinely nasty or unpleasant, but nobody is going to call say a torture porn fan basically a serial killer. If you can't treat fiction as fiction, then you can't meaningfully engage with it.
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Old December 18 2012, 03:44 PM   #29
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
HoHoHocutus wrote: View Post

You have suggested that people are immoral for liking certain genre characters,
To the point of dressing like them and emulating them when they are villain characters of a particularly vile type, yes.
It's called make-believe.

and now you're suggesting that people who enjoy zombie and post-apocalyptic films/TV/books/games are misanthropes who secretly long for the end of the world.
Go read some of the stuff that gets said on some of the hard-core prepper sites. They'll outright TELL you that they'd be perfectly happy for 99% of the world's population to die because in the preppers' opinion they don't deserve to live.
Who cares what an irrelevant fringe says on their Internet forums? What, you think "Internet Tough Guy Syndrome" is limited solely to prepper forums?

I think questioning your logic on this matter and your inability to make a distinction between fictional entertainment and reality is perfectly relevant to the topic at hand.
I am perfectly aware of the difference between fiction and real life, just as you are perfectly aware of the point I was actually making that you just didn't want to address: that it is morally repugnant to declare yourself a fan of an organization, real OR fictional, that commits or committed heinously barbaric acts and crimes against humanity (or sentient life in the case of SW).

And yes, stormtroopers DID do those things in the service of the Imperial military, which had well-known codes for committing planetary-scale genocide (Base Delta Zero), and which built Death Stars to make it even EASIER to commit planetary-scale genocide.

No sane, moral person would ever dress up as a Nazi and proclaim themselves "fans" of those evil people, nor would any sane, moral person ever dress up as an Imperial Stormtrooper and declare themselves "fans" of those evil people. Justifying it as "it's just fiction" is no excuse.
So, because I enjoyed the computer game TIE Fighter, in which you play as an Imperial pilot and slaughter Rebels, I would've been right there goosestepping with the SS? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Just because I like playing as the bad guys sometimes doesn't mean I am or want to be an antisocial miscreant in real life. That's because I can separate fantasy from reality.

Furthermore, when you start off with such a provocative premise, you can't expect that all the responses are going to be full of puppies and rainbows.
No but I expect them to be on topic, which your comment wasn't.
It is fully on-topic.
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Old December 18 2012, 06:41 PM   #30
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Re: Is Zom-poc/post-apoc the genre for misanthropes?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
...(That being ironic since one of the prime lessons Trek imparts is to be wary of technology and to hold on to one's humanity.)
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