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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old December 17 2012, 01:05 AM   #151
Jeyl
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Re: Insurrection

BillJ wrote: View Post
But there's no way billions of people benefit from the radiation if they actually have to travel to the Briar Patch. And the effects wear off after you leave.
BillJ is right. Gathering the special properties from the ring was not intended to recreate the rejuvenation effect 100% like it is on the planet, but to help advance current medical treatments. The admiral himself said that with this research, medical science can double life spans, not make people immortal.

This is important for many reasons.
  • The Sona's condition as depicted in the film gets worse over time with the Admiral stating that most won't survive for even a decade. If this discovery can double the life span of mere humans, imagine what it could do for the Sona's condition.
  • Probably the biggest issue that's only vaguely mentioned is that the Federation is at WAR. A war in which very bright individuals were convinced we were actually going to lose. If the Federation had this medical expertise that can increase someone's life span, I'd say you have a bargaining chip to get more systems onto your side.
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Old December 17 2012, 01:09 AM   #152
JarodRussell
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Re: Insurrection

Jeyl wrote: View Post
The Sona's condition as depicted in the film gets worse over time with the Admiral stating that most won't survive for even a decade. If this discovery can double the life span of mere humans, imagine what it could do for the Sona's condition.
Well, hm. The "condition" they have... they die of old age, like every fucking living thing in the entire universe.



Maybe to clarify things... do you think the metaphasic reaction collector thing at the end was supposed to be repeatable? My understanding is that it was a one time process, and then they would have bottled the collected particles and sold them, and then it would have been over, the entire planet rendered lifeless, and they would have had to harvest other places.
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Old December 17 2012, 01:16 AM   #153
los2188
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Re: Insurrection

BillJ wrote: View Post
los2188 wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
I also think the film cheats by not having the Baku give their opinion on the matter. They love the sanctity of life, so what would their thoughts be if leaving meant saving billions of lives out in the galaxy?
I completely agree with you, but actually I still say that they shouldn't even really need to move. Just open the planet up to others while they have their land similar to a nation or something that is off limits to off-landers.
But there's no way billions of people benefit from the radiation if they actually have to travel to the Briar Patch. And the effects wear off after you leave.
Ah ha...good point. I stand corrected.
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Old December 17 2012, 01:20 AM   #154
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Re: Insurrection

los2188 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
los2188 wrote: View Post

I completely agree with you, but actually I still say that they shouldn't even really need to move. Just open the planet up to others while they have their land similar to a nation or something that is off limits to off-landers.
But there's no way billions of people benefit from the radiation if they actually have to travel to the Briar Patch. And the effects wear off after you leave.
Ah ha...good point. I stand corrected.
Which means the relocation would have killed all of the old Ba'ku, wouldn't it?
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Old December 17 2012, 01:26 AM   #155
Jeyl
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Re: Insurrection

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Well, hm. The "condition" they have... they die of old age, like every fucking living thing in the entire universe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall green pus like toxins being the result of old age.
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Old December 17 2012, 01:29 AM   #156
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Re: Insurrection

Jeyl wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Well, hm. The "condition" they have... they die of old age, like every fucking living thing in the entire universe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall green pus like toxins being the result of old age.
That was the result of them obsessively trying to extend their lifespan. Plastic surgery, medication, genetic manipulation, they tried everything. Their bodies were producing toxins because they were living rotting corpses. They also made themselves infertile during the process, which was the irony. Instead of fighting the fact that they would die some day like everyone else, they should have gotten themselves a few kids. But they were jealous and tried to be just like their parents, and almost destroyed themselves with that.

I also think the Ba'ku got older and would eventually die some day, because there was a certain visible age range/diversity amongst the adults as well. All they had was more time, but they weren't actually immortal.
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Old December 17 2012, 01:37 AM   #157
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Re: Insurrection

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
The Sona's condition as depicted in the film gets worse over time with the Admiral stating that most won't survive for even a decade. If this discovery can double the life span of mere humans, imagine what it could do for the Sona's condition.
Well, hm. The "condition" they have... they die of old age, like every fucking living thing in the entire universe.



Maybe to clarify things... do you think the metaphasic reaction collector thing at the end was supposed to be repeatable? My understanding is that it was a one time process, and then they would have bottled the collected particles and sold them, and then it would have been over, the entire planet rendered lifeless, and they would have had to harvest other places.
So its wrong for the Son'a to try and remove the Ba'ku from that planet, but its okay for the Ba'ku to remove the Son'a from the planet? How does that work?
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Old December 17 2012, 01:38 AM   #158
JarodRussell
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Re: Insurrection

The Overlord wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
The Sona's condition as depicted in the film gets worse over time with the Admiral stating that most won't survive for even a decade. If this discovery can double the life span of mere humans, imagine what it could do for the Sona's condition.
Well, hm. The "condition" they have... they die of old age, like every fucking living thing in the entire universe.



Maybe to clarify things... do you think the metaphasic reaction collector thing at the end was supposed to be repeatable? My understanding is that it was a one time process, and then they would have bottled the collected particles and sold them, and then it would have been over, the entire planet rendered lifeless, and they would have had to harvest other places.
So its wrong for the Son'a to try and remove the Ba'ku from that planet, but its okay for the Ba'ku to remove the Son'a from the planet? How does that work?
But. The Ba'Ku. Didn't. Remove. The Son'a. From. The. Planet.

The Ba'ku exiled them from their village, that was all. Then the Son'a left the planet because they didn't want to live in the Briar Patch. That one is explicitly stated in the film.
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Old December 17 2012, 01:46 AM   #159
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Re: Insurrection

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The Overlord wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post

Well, hm. The "condition" they have... they die of old age, like every fucking living thing in the entire universe.



Maybe to clarify things... do you think the metaphasic reaction collector thing at the end was supposed to be repeatable? My understanding is that it was a one time process, and then they would have bottled the collected particles and sold them, and then it would have been over, the entire planet rendered lifeless, and they would have had to harvest other places.
So its wrong for the Son'a to try and remove the Ba'ku from that planet, but its okay for the Ba'ku to remove the Son'a from the planet? How does that work?
But. The Ba'Ku. Didn't. Remove. The Son'a. From. The. Planet.

The Ba'ku exiled them from their village, that was all. Then the Son'a left the planet because they didn't want to live in the Briar Patch.
Well if that's true, the Son'a could have just made a new village somewhere else on the planet. If they had the means to travel through space, surely they had the means to start a new town somewhere else on the planet, even a couple of miles away from that village.

Seriously now you have just pointed out a huge plot hole in the movie. If you are right, the Son'a's grudge against the Ba'ku makes no sense and robs them of anything that made them compelling as villains. At this point, I think the Son'a would have worked better if they were just greedy aliens who had nothing to do Ba'ku and revenge wasn't part of their motive.

Where the film did they say the Son'a were just exiled from the village and not the entire planet? Also how can a group of pacifists with no tech have defeated their more violence prone neighbors who were interested in technological development? This makes no sense.
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Old December 17 2012, 01:48 AM   #160
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Re: Insurrection

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The Ba'ku exiled them from their village, that was all. Then the Son'a left the planet because they didn't want to live in the Briar Patch. That one is explicitly stated in the film.
Colony Jarod, he said Colony. If it was just the village, why does Ru'afo make the case of being exiled to die slowly? If leaving the planet was his choice, why didn't anyone bring that point up? Even Picard says "The children have returned to expel their elders. Just as they were once expelled."
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Old December 17 2012, 01:51 AM   #161
Jeyl
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Re: Insurrection

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Then the Son'a left the planet because they didn't want to live in the Briar Patch.
But what difference would it have made even if they did take over the village? Yeah, they have the village, but they're still in the Briar Patch. Did the village have the best view of a lake or something?
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Old December 17 2012, 02:02 AM   #162
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Insurrection

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Maybe to clarify things... do you think the metaphasic reaction collector thing at the end was supposed to be repeatable? My understanding is that it was a one time process, and then they would have bottled the collected particles and sold them, and then it would have been over, the entire planet rendered lifeless, and they would have had to harvest other places.
The biggest problem of course being their was no where else to harvest.
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Old December 17 2012, 02:13 AM   #163
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Re: Insurrection

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
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That's always been one of my biggest problems with the film. The "bad guys" are actually kind of in the right.
I consider this to be one of the movie's strengths.

The evil "ugly" people are the ones who will improve the lives of billions, and the good "pretty" people are the ones who'll prevent this.
I think it COULD have been one of the strengths if they bothered to make it a plot point in the movie. Or even touch on it a little bit.
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Old December 17 2012, 02:25 AM   #164
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Re: Insurrection

Bishop76 wrote: View Post
Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
Bishop76 wrote: View Post
That's always been one of my biggest problems with the film. The "bad guys" are actually kind of in the right.
I consider this to be one of the movie's strengths.

The evil "ugly" people are the ones who will improve the lives of billions, and the good "pretty" people are the ones who'll prevent this.
I think it COULD have been one of the strengths if they bothered to make it a plot point in the movie. Or even touch on it a little bit.
I always felt that the fact the Ba'ku were pretty white people was a huge weakness for the film. This movie, the aliens should have looked more alien and the Ba'ku were shown to be pretty white people simply because it would get the audience on their side in this conflict, even though the conflict is supposed to be a moral dilemma.
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Old December 17 2012, 03:17 AM   #165
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Re: Insurrection

Insurrection is a lot more fun when you're listening to the Frakes/Sirtis commentary.
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