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Old December 15 2012, 09:33 PM   #91
Gryffindorian
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Gary7 wrote: View Post
I used to live in CT and drove through Newtown on my way to work. Very pleasant small rural town, which could be "Anytown USA" really. How horrific this whole thing has been... Newtown has lost its "under the radar" cachet... going to be an unsettled place for some time to come. My heart is so broken over this. 18 innocent lives.

Non Sync is right. It's not about guns. It's about mental health. THAT is the problem. A crazy mind like this can devise other means of destruction if guns aren't available. Unfortunately, the reason why such tragedies happen is due to severe mental illness that is allowed to fester without any reparation. It's a CULTURAL problem. That's the real issue at hand that nobody really wants to admit. And sticking electronic emotion monitoring chips inside people to make sure they behave is probably going to end up as the solution if we don't address the core issue, which is parenting and communication. Adam was probably living in his own little frustrated world, and allowed himself to degenerate over time until he'd do something like this. I have a suspicion that his father and older brother are going to come back with "well, he was having some problems and didn't want to talk about them much, and that's about it... sadly."

The problem is guns + mental health.
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Old December 15 2012, 09:44 PM   #92
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Gary7 wrote: View Post
Non Sync is right. It's not about guns. It's about mental health. THAT is the problem. A crazy mind like this can devise other means of destruction if guns aren't available.
Such as? What else could someone use as a means of destruction that would have the same fatality rate as a gun?
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Old December 15 2012, 10:11 PM   #93
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

It IS about guns. You will never be able to prevent amok runs. But you can reduce the causalities. Had this guy only had an axe or a kitchen knife, there would be a lot more survivors. There is no need for guns for civilians. No need at all.
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Old December 16 2012, 12:41 AM   #94
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Jesus. What is wrong with these people? Westboro "church" to picket Newtown funerals.
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Old December 16 2012, 01:16 AM   #95
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

It's a sad state of affairs when a group of people are planning to picket a funeral. Basic human decency says shouldn't do it. I wonder sometimes how these people would feel if it was one of their children thats was brutally murdered and someone decide to picket their child's funeral. I suspect that they wouldn't like it.
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Old December 16 2012, 01:25 AM   #96
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

I'm just surprised that picketing funerals is legal. I would think that it would fall under a hate speech law or something similar.
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Old December 16 2012, 01:27 AM   #97
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

MacLeod wrote: View Post
It's a sad state of affairs when a group of people are planning to picket a funeral. Basic human decency says shouldn't do it. I wonder sometimes how these people would feel if it was one of their children thats was brutally murdered and someone decide to picket their child's funeral. I suspect that they wouldn't like it.
From what I have read -

members of the Westboro Baptist Church believe that they are the only ones who are following God's word. They also believe that because they are following God's word they cannot die. I imagine that if one of them died they would say that that person had sinned and God had rejected them and therefore the rest of the flock would reject the person who had died and there might not even be a funeral.

However I am not sure if they will take this tack if Fred himself dies.


Edited to add - I am almost certain that it was Nate Phelps who said that this is his family's attitude to death. Though it has been 30 years since Nate has talked to his family but I think he has kept himself up to date on their beliefs.

Last edited by Miss Chicken; December 16 2012 at 01:44 AM.
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Old December 16 2012, 02:03 AM   #98
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Whether it's guns or mental health as the core issue, this country is not going to police everyone to the extent that would be required to make sure it NEVER can happen again. Because that's not possible. Many of the killers aren't in any serious legal problems until they kill.

How much "intrusive government" would there be on limiting at least certain guns/weapons versus checking out each and every American to see if they have killer tendencies. Or are depressed. Or whatever. I'm fairly sure one could claim that most Americans would qualify as depressed at least one week each year--we live in stressful times where there's not a general sense of community. Sometimes it's hard just to get through the day and everyone is usually locked into their own survival; not physical survival, but emotional survival--which is what seems to be the big trigger.

I have no idea what to do, but ideas need to be brought up, discussed, discarded/attempted, etc.
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Old December 16 2012, 03:24 AM   #99
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

I saw this on FB. Didn't take the time to research whether the attribution to Freeman is correct, because the point is excellent no matter who said it. The only part I disagree with is the last line, because like I've said before, I think it's a matter of mental health and guns.

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings....

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you kn
ow the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."
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Old December 16 2012, 03:41 AM   #100
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

I read that the murdered mom was "struggling" with her difficult son. It made me immediately think of other single parents I've known (not saying it's only single parents, just those are the ones I've known of) who have 20 something sons living at home, barely or not working, hostile, maybe substance abusing, aggressive, sometimes with clear mental health issues, refusing any intervention or offers of help. I've known a few people who were hostages in their own home because of this kind of thing. You can't just throw a son out because their problems are so serious they are unemployable but they make your life a living hell.. but not hell enough to get any outside intervention.

There are a lot of ticking time bombs out there who are going to hurt themselves or their families or strangers and who's loved ones can't find any solutions for. What do you get told, "make" him go to this psychiatrist which you can't afford, make him go on meds which you also can't afford, make him go to this 12 step group.. and in the end you cannot make them do anything.

Society relies on the family to care for people who have serious issues and there is no back up or professional help for those families. What do you do when you know something is seriously wrong but there is no avenue to fix it?
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Old December 16 2012, 04:02 AM   #101
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Gingerbread Girl wrote: View Post
Jesus. What is wrong with these people? Westboro "church" to picket Newtown funerals.
If the whack-jobs can't just kill themselves before they take out dozens of children, at least go take out those fucking Westboro idiots first.
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Old December 16 2012, 04:02 AM   #102
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

I am glad I live in a country(OZ)where counselling is funded by the government for the most vulnerable people that need it!

It's no wonder the YEW-ESS is going down the drain.
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Old December 16 2012, 05:53 AM   #103
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Tora Noel wrote: View Post
I saw this on FB. Didn't take the time to research whether the attribution to Freeman is correct, because the point is excellent no matter who said it. The only part I disagree with is the last line, because like I've said before, I think it's a matter of mental health and guns.

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings....

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you kn
ow the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."
It sounds so cool especially when it comes from Morgan Freeman, doesn't it? I was even doing an impression of him while I was reading that quote you posted. I like Morgan Freeman; however, I don't agree with his last statement.

Not all violent criminals are crazy, and not all crazies are criminals. But as long as anyone has easy access to guns, does it really matter what their motives are?
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Old December 16 2012, 06:00 AM   #104
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

I'm still thinking about this and I'm still angered by this, but a site released the names of the victims and I actually just had tears. 6 and 7 year olds who won't ever get a chance to grow up, have their own children, get married. I really hope this country does something and not have happen like what happened with Aurora, have it top news for a few weeks and not hear anything else about it afterwards. It's just heartbreaking this whole thing, and it hits close to home because I'm a Substitute Custodian and had a day shift at an elementary school a week ago Friday. This is really affecting me, even though I live hundreds of miles away.
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Old December 16 2012, 11:31 AM   #105
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
I think part of the problem is that these discussions - gun control, mental health, violence - only seem to catch people's attention when we're dealing with reaction to the aftermath of a terrible crime. And that's not a good time to hold such a discussion, because distress and anger and confusion are all running high. When you're responding to something like this in the immediate aftermath, any reaction is going to be concerned with either soothing unrest and providing comfort or exploiting the unrest to some political or ideological end. Neither of those lends itself easily to a truthful examination of a society. People will latch onto the easy answers or the comfortable old debates (e.g. American gun control), and because a show of solidarity becomes incredibly important after events like this, it means the more uncomfortable issues are not going to be examined for fear of harming that sense of emotional unity.
Well said indeed, DN.

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
Such as? What else could someone use as a means of destruction that would have the same fatality rate as a gun?
Are you kidding? Does the name Timothy McVeigh ring a bell?

propita wrote: View Post
Whether it's guns or mental health as the core issue, this country is not going to police everyone to the extent that would be required to make sure it NEVER can happen again. Because that's not possible. Many of the killers aren't in any serious legal problems until they kill.
You're absolutely right. The reality is that we can't prevent all mental breakdowns any more than we can prevent hurricanes or tsunamis. They are a force of nature. But we can do infinitely better at removing the stigma of mental illness, researching mental illness and learning how to recognize and treat mental illness. Draconian measures of gun bans, curfews, pass laws, police in the schools and so on do nothing to address the issue.

I have no idea what to do, but ideas need to be brought up, discussed, discarded/attempted, etc.
Exactly. We need more knowledge. Knowledge is power.

And, yes, Morgan Freeman rocks.
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