Now That John Logan Has Proven Himself, What Went Wrong With Nemesis?

[Bishop76]

^ That's key - it's a totally different demographic both films are chasing. The effect that Maid had on Emesis was probably non-existent. It failed entirely because it was a giant turd of a film.

[Phily B]

TPTB started taking trek for granted long before Nemesis and were phoning it in, the studios were to blame giving some no name director the chair for the movie and giving the actors way too much control.

[Bishop76]

Yeah, Spiner and Stewart should never have had any control and Stuart Baird is awful.

[anh165]

When I was a young fool and watched this at the cinema, I enjoyed the space battle between the Enterprise and the Schimtar.

Later on I had it on DVD, and realised how cheesy the whole cast has become and how the movie was made purely to tick all the boxes to get trekkies to watch it in the most lazy and un-imaginative of ways.

[jhouston6]

I'd say oversaturation of star trek did in nemesis.

[CorporalClegg]

Phily B wrote:

---

TPTB started taking trek for granted long before Nemesis and were phoning it in, the studios were to blame giving some no name director the chair for the movie and giving the actors way too much control.

Baird is hardly a "no name," quite the contrary in fact. He just sucks as a director. But that was the whole point. TPTB didn't actually care about his aptitude as a director, they just wanted to be able to say "Directed by Academy Award nominee Stuart Baird and written by Academy Award nominee John Logan" on the trailer.

[Jeyl]

jhouston6 wrote:

---

I'd say oversaturation of star trek did in nemesis.

First Contact was released when we had Deep Space Nine AND Voyager running at the same time, and it came out two years after Generations. Did audiences or fans complain that there was too much Star Trek? No. First Contact went on to be the most successful of all the TNG films both critically and financially. Nemesis on the other hand was released four years after Insurrection (At the time the longest gap between movies) when there was only one Star Trek show (ENTERPRISE) and was a failure to both audiences and fans.

In conclusion, not only did over saturation NOT kill Nemesis, there was no over saturation period. The film was just bad, and John Logan played a very important part in that regard.

[jayrath]

^ Agreed.

[JarodRussell]

I don't think Logan has ever proven himself. Nemesis was his and Spiner's script, but all the other films that were successful were only cowritten by him, or rewritten by others, or something.

[CorporalClegg]

^
Not to mention Skyfall is hardly proof. It may be a good film, but that credit is due the director. The script was mediocre at best.

[BillJ]

Bishop76 wrote:

---

It failed entirely because it was a giant turd of a film.

Yet it's probably the most memorable of the Next Gen movies (in my opinion). Which really says something about the overall quality of the films Rick Berman produced.

[Bishop76]

Berman's films were definitely problematic. It was clear he just didn't care any more and was just crapping out product. To me First Contact was the best/most memorable because despite being deeply flawed, it was still entertaining to me. None of the other ones got close to being entertaining.

[BillJ]

Bishop76 wrote:

---

Berman's films were definitely problematic. It was clear he just didn't care any more and was just crapping out product. To me First Contact was the best/most memorable because despite being deeply flawed, it was still entertaining to me. None of the other ones got close to being entertaining.

Not sure that I'd say Rick Berman didn't care. He was a TV producer trying to produce a feature film franchise and he continued to think in TV terms. Three of the films were written/directed by people associated with the TV franchise.

Outside of the memory of my daughter jumping three feet in the air when the Borg mechanism popped-out of Picard's face, First Contact just doesn't do anything for me. It feels the most like a TV episode to me, depending the most on TV elements (Borg, Zephram Cochrane, time travel) for its story. And it only ranks above Insurrection in my Trek movie rankings.

As in all things, your mileage may vary.

[Dream]

BillJ wrote:

---

First Contact just doesn't do anything for me. It feels the most like a TV episode to me, depending the most on TV elements (Borg, Zephram Cochrane, time travel) for its story.

I think most fans like First Contact because of its connections to the show. It was a loose sequel to BOBW.

It's the same reason why many fans consider TWOK to be the best TOS film since it had Khan, who had once appeared on that series. Ricardo Montalbán's brilliant performance helped too.

[USS KG5]

slappy wrote:

---

...and the amazing Skyfall.

Didn't Stuart Baird also edit Skyfall? He must be good for something

So what the hell went wrong with Nemesis? Too many cooks in the kitchen? Not enough cooks in the kitchen? At what point did he think he was writing something good?

Nemesis isn't that bad, it just isn't all THAT good either. It is a couple of re-writes away from being a great trek movie, it just was made before they did the re-writes.